Cold Storage Design

[permafrost888]

Thank you for all your responses. I really appreciate all the help. Just have a few more questions. Regarding panel testing, how do you test the panel density? I heard from an engineer that they normally cut up a sample of the panel and weigh it. Is this sound testing procedure? I also read somewhere on the forum that you can test the panel gaps once installed by using infrared cameras. Is this the best way to test panel installation? Oh by the way, my consultant is recommending that the panels be installed horizontally and not vertically. He says that nobody has done it but based on his own experience in building cold stores for the last 40 years this is the best way to do it. Something about improving structural strength?

[Josip]

Hi, permafrost888

Thank you for all your responses. I really appreciate all the help. Just have a few more questions. Regarding panel testing, how do you test the panel density? I heard from an engineer that they normally cut up a sample of the panel and weigh it. Is this sound testing procedure? I also read somewhere on the forum that you can test the panel gaps once installed by using infrared cameras. Is this the best way to test panel installation? Oh by the way, my consultant is recommending that the panels be installed horizontally and not vertically. He says that nobody has done it but based on his own experience in building cold stores for the last 40 years this is the best way to do it. Something about improving structural strength?

Very interesting, with 40 years of experience maybe he discovered what is the best method, even if none in the rest of this world is not using that method to improve structural strength ... if you like you can give him a chance to prove that


I'm working like supervisor refrigeration engineer for mechanical part (33+years). Until now I was in contact with panels for vertical installation only, (except floor insulation). It is possible, that I miss something regarding horizontal installation of insulation panels due to so many daily technical innovations and this is maybe a chance for all of us to be enlighten ...

In Nestle Moscow we installed a big self-support ice cream room 33m x 22m with internal height of 10,5m ceiling panels were suspended to outside steel construction with roof of steel sheets to protect panels from rain and snow ... quite big ice cream box ....

In India the height was 11,68m, before installation we apply butyl mastic (kind of green plastic rubber-sealant-(check this link http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Ch...oductsservices ) on both inner and outside joint groove and after finishing, again we apply white silicone on outside and transparent silicone on inside panel joints. Panels were prefabricated and inside panel material was SS material and outside was white. Working temperature was -50*C and panel thickness was 220mm ...

Floor insulation was a high strength Floormate and Thermisol insulation sheets ... you can Google both

So, if you order your insulation material from some brand manufacturer you should get what you pay for, no need to prove or check anything on site, just install it in proper way. A good cold room is not easy to install, be careful it can be disaster if you miss something.

Then, in another hand, you can spend extra money to give someone to check the density of panel foam or play around with infrared cameras or some other hi-tech instruments, but first (my warm suggestion) try to make a professional installation ... of everything ... you must not build a house of cards ...

... please read my sig ...

Best regards, Josip

[mdr]

Thank you for all your responses. I really appreciate all the help. Just have a few more questions. Regarding panel testing, how do you test the panel density? I heard from an engineer that they normally cut up a sample of the panel and weigh it. Is this sound testing procedure? I also read somewhere on the forum that you can test the panel gaps once installed by using infrared cameras. Is this the best way to test panel installation? Oh by the way, my consultant is recommending that the panels be installed horizontally and not vertically. He says that nobody has done it but based on his own experience in building cold stores for the last 40 years this is the best way to do it. Something about improving structural strength?

to determine its density the simplest way is indeed cut a 1m x 1m panel sample and then weigh this, say for example, a 100mm(0.10m) thick panel weighing 3.8 kg will have a density of
38 kg/m3. various test studies find that for PUR core insulated panel the best density is 38 kg/m3.

thermograph imaging is the term best describing infrared cameras and yes it is.

consultants are always helpful as they have vast experiences relative to their expertise.
however,please do not be rely solely on their claim that they know what is the best even if they have been doing such for 40 years. take the grind in validating their claims by investigating discreetly on their past works or groups such as suppliers or contractors that have worked with him. even take the guts to check with their past clients as they may reveal something that is hidden to you as consultants will never openly discuss with you their failed projects.

you mention about something about improving structural strength...please let him explain in layman's term so you can describe this to us as contrary to our experience. ok,from our side panels when laid horizontally in numerous layers impose the total weight to the bottom panel even if clips of supports hold each panel. moreover, not all panels have special joints on the outer metal skin that prevents rain water from coming in. again, contrary to what we know most high rise single-storey refrigerated warehouses successfully built have panels laid vertically. in the same manner most refrigerated warehouses (which are far far less) having horizontally laid panels suffer from leaks. f
finally,please do not hold my explanation as the complete correct answer but just a valid input