The Trouble with the Industry !!

[RSTC]

It should be remembered that 2079 is not a PHD in RAC, but only an absolute minimum requirement for handling refrigerant containing F-gas in an environmentally safe manner (you can go ahead blow yourself up with propane or kill a small village with ammonia). In comparison to many other industries, it's the lightest of requirements.

In respect of the 'government with their hand in our pocket' comments, this is a European directive so everybody is in similar boats (the detail decided by member states), here there is no payment to the government - the training is even VAT exempt. I've said it here before, if you comply and you know somebody isn't - point the EPA in their direction (053) 91 60600 for Ireland and UK is posted by r.bartlett above. The standard instrument is now in law (SI278 see it here http://www.refrigerationskillnet.ie/...i279of2011.pdf) and the EPA have tendered and are appointing auditors for suppliers, contractors and end users of f-gases.

I know I'm preaching to the choir in this forum, but I am always amused by people (especially company bosses) who complain about 'other' trades presenting for training, who have not been investing in training themselves or their staff.

Oh and for 2079 there is no requirement to retrain or retest after a period and there is no provision in the Directive for it either. It is being revised but I don't believe there is any intention to change that. I understand that the CITB training is to be renewed periodically. As a matter of interest what is the industry view on the CITB v 2079... for example if you had two interview candidates one with 10 years experience and a CITB and one with 10 years experience and 2079 - which would you pick?

[chillerman2006]

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I know I'm preaching to the choir in this forum, but I am always amused by people (especially company bosses) who complain about 'other' trades presenting for training, who have not been investing in training themselves or their staff.

for example if you had two interview candidates one with 10 years experience and a CITB and one with 10 years experience and 2079 - which would you pick?

Hi RSTC

Jack of all trades & Master of None, - just my 2 cents on that one

The candidate to choose will be the most experienced/able, qualifications come second

R's chillerman

[Grizzly]

It should be remembered that 2079 is not a PHD in RAC, but only an absolute minimum requirement for handling refrigerant containing F-gas in an environmentally safe manner (you can go ahead blow yourself up with propane or kill a small village with ammonia). In comparison to many other industries, it's the lightest of requirements.

In respect of the 'government with their hand in our pocket' comments, this is a European directive so everybody is in similar boats (the detail decided by member states), here there is no payment to the government - the training is even VAT exempt. I've said it here before, if you comply and you know somebody isn't - point the EPA in their direction (053) 91 60600 for Ireland and UK is posted by r.bartlett above. The standard instrument is now in law (SI278 see it here http://www.refrigerationskillnet.ie/...i279of2011.pdf) and the EPA have tendered and are appointing auditors for suppliers, contractors and end users of f-gases.

I know I'm preaching to the choir in this forum, but I am always amused by people (especially company bosses) who complain about 'other' trades presenting for training, who have not been investing in training themselves or their staff.

Oh and for 2079 there is no requirement to retrain or retest after a period and there is no provision in the Directive for it either. It is being revised but I don't believe there is any intention to change that. I understand that the CITB training is to be renewed periodically. As a matter of interest what is the industry view on the CITB v 2079... for example if you had two interview candidates one with 10 years experience and a CITB and one with 10 years experience and 2079 - which would you pick?

Hi RSTC.
Do you guys in ireland have the same cit& guilds / citb.
I ask because there is a huge difference between C&G Close book exam and CITB (Is it called J11 or something like that?) Which is open book.

Simply put the C&G is harder to obtain or at least should be.
Also why are you quoting Ammonia as it has nothing to do with these regs.
Safe handling of Ammonia is a totally separate course.
Basically holding an F Gas certificate is the industry starting point now!
We all have to have it so having one does not make the engineer.
What it does do however is make each and everyone of us in individually responsible.
Try arguing after something environmentally went wrong on one of your jobs, that you did not know better.
Ain't going to happen!

We all got driving licenses then we learned from experience.
F Gas is no different.
OH! I would employ the one with the experience that best suits the job role being offered.
Grizzly

[chillerman2006]

the training is even VAT exempt.

RSTC or TAZ .............. or Anyone else who knows

Can you confirm this for me ?

Point me in the direction of official site .... eg. .gov.uk

As I have been charged VAT

[RSTC]

Point me in the direction of official site .... eg. .gov.uk

As I have been charged VAT

extract from www.revenue.ie Appendix A: VAT Exempt activities :
"children's or young people's education, school or university education, and vocational training
or retraining (including the supply of goods and services incidental thereto , other than
the supply of research services), provided by educational establishments recognised by the
State, and education, training or retraining of a similar kind , excluding instruction in the driving
of mechanically propelled road vehicles other than vehicles designed or constructed for
the conveyance of goods with a capacity of 1.5 tonnes or more, provided by other persons;
"

That's for our side of the pond but I don't think you are any different. Hope that helps

[chillerman2006]

extract from www.revenue.ie Appendix A: VAT Exempt activities :
"children's or young people's education, school or university education, and vocational training
or retraining (including the supply of goods and services incidental thereto , other than
the supply of research services), provided by educational establishments recognised by the
State, and education, training or retraining of a similar kind , excluding instruction in the driving
of mechanically propelled road vehicles other than vehicles designed or constructed for
the conveyance of goods with a capacity of 1.5 tonnes or more, provided by other persons;
"

That's for our side of the pond but I don't think you are any different. Hope that helps

Ok thanks mate, will phone and query my bill monday

cheers