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Thread: CO2 for IQF
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23-07-2008, 05:50 PM #1
CO2 for IQF
Hi friends, One customer he said me, that he see one system with CO2 over fruit before enter to IQF.
Somebody can help me with the system.
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23-07-2008, 06:07 PM #2
Re: CO2 for IQF
Only if you promise not to laugh!
I haven't seen mechanical CO2 applied before a IQF but in EMERGENCY situations something as simple (and expensive) as buying dry ice, placing in an insulated container with two openings you blow hot air trough one opening and get really cold air + gaseous CO2 out the other opening and on the product. Used in ventilated areas!
Someone that doesn't know refrigeration could have thought this is a CO2 system before the IQF, though as I said it is an EMERGENCY aid when the IQF cannot cope with the load.
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23-07-2008, 06:24 PM #3
Re: CO2 for IQF
Originally Posted by mauricio FortLast edited by US Iceman; 23-07-2008 at 06:24 PM. Reason: edit text
If all else fails, ask for help.
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23-07-2008, 07:32 PM #4
Re: CO2 for IQF
Hi,
you are right Mike ... maybe like this ...
Originally Posted by http://beachberryfarms.com/behindourlabel.html
kind of DIY to preserve harvest ... believe not too much expensive ...
Best regards, Josip
It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious...
Don't ever underestimate the power of stupid people when they are in large groups.
Please, don't teach me how to be stupid....
No job is as important as to jeopardize the safety of you or those that you work with.
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23-07-2008, 07:45 PM #5
Re: CO2 for IQF
Who's Mike? ... Oh you mean Us..ok I get it!
Josip your post is right but for cryogenic freezing, not as an aid to an IQF!
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23-07-2008, 07:58 PM #6
Re: CO2 for IQF
Dry ice spray is much used these days in place of nitrogen, because CO2 doesn't change the colour of foods being frozen.
Eg.: Findus does this. There is case study I read in which they compare hamburger freezing the traditional way (190 grams in 11 minutes in a blast freezer) against CO2 ice spray (90 seconds core frozen).
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23-07-2008, 08:04 PM #7
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23-07-2008, 08:13 PM #8
Re: CO2 for IQF
It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious...
Don't ever underestimate the power of stupid people when they are in large groups.
Please, don't teach me how to be stupid....
No job is as important as to jeopardize the safety of you or those that you work with.
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23-07-2008, 08:23 PM #9
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23-07-2008, 08:29 PM #10
And please donīt tell me you are saying you would place a CO2 cryogenic IQF freezer in front of a watever IQF Mr. mauricio Fort has in order to do exactly WHAT with it?
Last edited by GXMPLX; 23-07-2008 at 09:06 PM.
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23-07-2008, 09:33 PM #11
Re: CO2 for IQF
Hi, GXMPLX
You've heard of, nice, but some people on this forum maybe not ...
I do not know about production expenses, are you sure ...? Really, I do not know, but (IMHO), it must be more expensive to get a liquid nitrogen (4 or 5 stages system-maybe I am not right) then to get a liquid CO2 with a single stage ammonia system ....
.... however, it is maybe possible, because N2 you have within air (78%+) and easy to get into liquefaction plant, but to get CO2 you need to have some plant (brewery or similar) where you have a clean CO2 as a waste - not exactly ....
Best regards, Josip
It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious...
Don't ever underestimate the power of stupid people when they are in large groups.
Please, don't teach me how to be stupid....
No job is as important as to jeopardize the safety of you or those that you work with.
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23-07-2008, 09:55 PM #12
Re: CO2 for IQF
Hi, GXMPLX
... I must admit my English is not so good and this question and its meaning I do not understand fully, but ...
... let me ask you one question ... did you ever work on industrial freezing tunnels for sensible fruits like berry on particular plants and trees ... if your answer is yes, then you should know how important is to preserve it whole to obtain A class product (put a pack into microwave machine and you have just picked berries) .... there are people ready to pay for it ...
... so for me it will be ok to use dry ice (small amount and not expensive) to freeze a skin of berry and proceed with normal freezing in any tunnel (I prefer ammonia) to obtain A class product - very expensive one ... that sounds reasonable to you or not ?
But I can be completely wrong .... I do not know everything...
Best regards, Josip
It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious...
Don't ever underestimate the power of stupid people when they are in large groups.
Please, don't teach me how to be stupid....
No job is as important as to jeopardize the safety of you or those that you work with.
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23-07-2008, 10:12 PM #13
Re: CO2 for IQF
Thanks Josip, my day started to improve ... a little ..., at least I learned or should I say re-learned-membered that Scroll compressors might need a suction muffler if you don't install a U bend in it's suction.
I must apologize to you for this was really a rhetorical question but as my wife says I may have a caustic sense of humor other people don't understand and gets mad at me.
Don't tell Mi ... er ... Us ... er ... well ... Him about this or I'll get canned or whacked again!
CO2 prices depend heavily on closeness to factories and may be the dominant factor here.
Have a nice day!
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23-07-2008, 10:12 PM #14
Re: CO2 for IQF
Exactly, berries are the center core product for dry ice flash freezing.
And it is also quite easily separated from nitrogen, with fractional distillation of air, or some other industrial byproduct.
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23-07-2008, 10:42 PM #15
Re: CO2 for IQF
Last edited by GXMPLX; 23-07-2008 at 10:55 PM.
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24-07-2008, 12:12 AM #16
Re: CO2 for IQF
Originally Posted by GXMPLX
It is not uncommon for some processors to utilize a pre-cooling section. This can substantially increase an IQF capacity. I've heard of using some hi-temperature evaporators and even the use of liquid CO2.
I think a lot of this depends on the type of IQF and how they try to prevent product clumping also.If all else fails, ask for help.
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24-07-2008, 01:31 AM #17
Re: CO2 for IQF
Tks, I always need a reminder big brother is watching me or wife!.
Yes, maybe Mr . Fort should first give more details on the type of IQF too.
Every cryogenic IQF has a pre-cooling section thus I rule them out in this case.
I dont think doing it with CO2 is precisely economic but depends also on the product and quality improvement, of course.
We ... (or I'll) better wait if Mr. Fort can tell us more details.