Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

[Debonair Spain]

Hi Pollardspark, i install the Daikin equivilant called Altherma. Now they recommend Low temperature rads because of the lower flow temperatures and calculating heatlosses for the rooms.

When i enquired about using normal rads for Altherma the Daikin tech person said he would double the size of the rads if i were to use them for each room.

Have you tried contacting Mitsubishi directly to confront the issue of the undersizing.

[Kesh-NI]

Hi to all in this discussion. I am completely new to this and have read every comment to date.

I am in Northern Ireland and where I live there is no piped gas, and although oil prices now are fairly stable compared to the roller coaster we had last year, I am faced with knowing I have to replace a 15+ year old oil boiler for both central heating and hot water. The system has no water only separation for summer, and no thermostat for heating. Just the one simple dial on the boiler for water temperature! Bizarre, I know, but this believe it or not, is typical of heating systems installed during 70's and 80's in my area.

With an old, inefficient boiler I am well aware I am overspending hundreds of £'s a year on oil, and the rads furthest from the boiler are barely tepid.

So, last week I began to look for prices of an efficient replacement boiler, and lo and behold, I accidentally stumbled upon 'Ecodan.' With immediate excitement I though this was the holy grail, and wondered why I'd never heard of this before. When I saw Mit's charts I could save half my running costs, even if I had a modern oil boiler, and with the fact mine is 15+ think of the even greater saving... Great!

And then I read this forum... Is it all it's cracked up to be? Why are there so many problems? Some concerns over outdoor location and freezing water... how do they do it in Scandinavia? Inappropriate sizing spec / surveys? All the peripheral bits to the system? High pressure... I don't want to find out that my whole house needs to be re-plumbed with a new leak springing up every week! The Daikin Altherma seems to have fewer issues. What about 55C max water temps on the Mits?

I'm no eco-warrior but 50% less CO2 would feel like I'm making a my own small contributuion to our planet.

The initial enthusiasm has now been curbed... Is it just better for me to stick to oil for now and to come back to this in another 10-15 years? Is it too naive to learn how Scandinavians have made this work and replicate their models?

I know I'm new to this, but I need someone to restore my belief that this is the best way to go in terms of reliability, heat control and delivery, separate heating and water control, and COST! What are typical costs for a 4 bedroom semi? I did a btu calc for an oil boiler replacement and it came out with a number of approx 60000. I don't have a clue what that means really, but can a heat pump system cope ok with that (please excuse my ignorance...). Someone mentioned a Sanyo system a while back which allows water temperature of 75C - Eco was only 55, don't know if Altherma is any dfferent, but if I recall correctly it can also be linked to solar panels??? Doe that have any significant bearing?

And on the issue of cost, and specifically in a retrofit situation, what are the chances of grant assistance? Eco considerations may have to be put to one side if costings are stupid!

Does anyone have contacts in Northern Ireland who I could refer to?

All input so far has been useful, but I need some expert advice to consider this any further.

Kesh

[al]

kesh

try looking at this thread to restore your eco faith, i'd have no probs installing one of these if upgrading/replacing our existing set up.

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...aikin+altherma

al

[Kesh-NI]

Hello al, a fellow Irishman

Cheers for the link to that thread.

Frank, you seem to be THE man to ask, so if you're still viewing this forum can you tell us how your mate's electricity bill went over the last 6 months, and how well the sytem operated during the winter months? Have you had any grief down the boozer?

It was great to hear that between June and Sept 2008, you measured the cost at £20 extra to run the ASHP, with the solar input. But realistically, the real test would have been October to now, when the solar's input would have been at its lowest. Is it possible to post an update? Was there a massive hike in his lekky bill? Is he still talking to you?

As I posted yesterday, my concerns are 2-fold.
1. Capital cost of solar + (most probably) Altherma -v- simple replacement of an old oil boiler
2. Running costs... I don't just want to replace an oil boiler costing me a fortune (£1500-£1600 typically - ouch!) with an electricity bill going through the roof.

Hey, I'm not really being a doom-monger nor do I want to come over as unduely sceptical... actually, I just don't know enough about all this... I so want to believe it'd be worth it.

If I just swapped out for a new boiler now (recently estimated at £1000 supplied and installed) I reckon my oil bill would be down to £800-£900. Maximum year 1 cost about £2k and no grant towards this.

What's the outlay for a typical solar + ASHP system, and year 1 running cost? It may all come down to simple economics. Essentially, the difference in capital outlay has to have a payback, and the sooner the better.

Would I be much or indeed any better off with solar + ASHP, even after 5 years? And then there seem to be all those caveats about how energy efficient / leaky the house has to be for optimal conditions for the all important COP figures to stack up...........

Kesh

[frank]

Hello al, a fellow Irishman

Cheers for the link to that thread.

Frank, you seem to be THE man to ask, so if you're still viewing this forum can you tell us how your mate's electricity bill went over the last 6 months, and how well the sytem operated during the winter months? Have you had any grief down the boozer?

It was great to hear that between June and Sept 2008, you measured the cost at £20 extra to run the ASHP, with the solar input. But realistically, the real test would have been October to now, when the solar's input would have been at its lowest. Is it possible to post an update? Was there a massive hike in his lekky bill? Is he still talking to you?

As I posted yesterday, my concerns are 2-fold.
1. Capital cost of solar + (most probably) Altherma -v- simple replacement of an old oil boiler
2. Running costs... I don't just want to replace an oil boiler costing me a fortune (£1500-£1600 typically - ouch!) with an electricity bill going through the roof.

Hey, I'm not really being a doom-monger nor do I want to come over as unduely sceptical... actually, I just don't know enough about all this... I so want to believe it'd be worth it.

If I just swapped out for a new boiler now (recently estimated at £1000 supplied and installed) I reckon my oil bill would be down to £800-£900. Maximum year 1 cost about £2k and no grant towards this.

What's the outlay for a typical solar + ASHP system, and year 1 running cost? It may all come down to simple economics. Essentially, the difference in capital outlay has to have a payback, and the sooner the better.

Would I be much or indeed any better off with solar + ASHP, even after 5 years? And then there seem to be all those caveats about how energy efficient / leaky the house has to be for optimal conditions for the all important COP figures to stack up...........

Kesh

Since the install was carried out, I'm not getting any grief down the pub - now I get the odd pint for free

Spoke to the man today actually on the phone - he was asking how the install for the nice people he invited around to view his system was going. I said that it was finished on Friday and that, looking at the nice weather we had on Sunday, I could imagine very big grins on their faces just watching the hot water cylinder heat up for free!!

The original system that was mentioned at the start of this thread has now been operating for 11 months. The total electricity cost, including some Economy 7 is £230. The total cost for this month (March) is just over £10. It looks like the first years energy cost will be less than £250. Not bad when you consider that the oil spend was in the region of £1900/year.

I'll see if I can get a copy of the speadsheet he's been keeping.