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  1. #1
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    Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler


    Anyone had any experience of these or has speced one yet.


    Might be interested in instaling one in my own house!



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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    i have put one of these in on a bc box system to run a under floor heating system
    mitsi were a bit unsure of it s control side

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Have you seen the literature on the mitsubishi website?....its makes interesting reading.

    All the Japanese manufacturers are producing similar offerings, some on R410 and some on R744 (CO2)....they are, as usual, leading the market.

    I would like to see one in action and there are some very interesting principles, but I still have reservations on the overall economics of these compared to a boiler. They say that they cost about the same as a modern boiler to install, but I would expect a boiler to last some 15 years. A compressor going down in one of these units would severely test the economic equation!

    Now what I WOULD like to see is an Airconditioning system that has a heat reclaim exchanger built in....In summer you could get the majority of your hot water for free.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    There really should be no reason for any commercial building with any dx air conditioning to have boilers providing hot water during summer time.
    Retro fit desuperheater to comp discharge to supply free hot water.
    At least Mitsubishi electric are doing heat pump boilers which can be fitted like any other indoor unit to the R2 City Multi heat recovery system. If the system is in cooling only mode then you get free hot water. If the system is heating then you still get hot water from outside air heat pump cycle.
    There are 1000's of City Multi systems installed in the uk over the last 16 years.
    So why not retro fit to all of them & scrap the boilers ???

    Think of all the buildings you work in & all the computer room cooling dx systems throwing vast quanties of heat away 24/7 !!!

    I was on a site the other day,,, massive office block about 100 City Multi indoor units, about 20 cooling only outdoor units. Boilers & perimiter radiator heating system. January & out side ambient less than 5 deg C.Been installed obout 8 years.

    You know what is going to follow dont you.

    Heating system on, radiators red hot, City Multi systems running like the clappers to cool offices which were being heated by the radiators.

    Customer admitted this was a waist of energy & have submitted proposals to upgrade to energy efficent system but no funds available for this financial year.

    On the domestic front we should see the CO2 heat pump water heaters coming to europe soon which should be interesting, but it would be good to get some feed back form the japanese service engineers who have been doing maintenance on these things for the last 6 or 7 years.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    interesing topic but there are not good study report on that. Many article says it's saving energy but why it's not used widely.
    I hear...I forget;I see...I remember;I do...I understand

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Yes I have seen the literature on the website and we've been sent the bumf direct from Mitsi in Manchester as one of their 'Approved Installers'.

    I'm just waiting on a reply from an email I've sent to their local Sales Rep with more info and costings etc.



    Maybe I could skank a subsidised install in return for use of my home as a example!

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hi refaircon, can i ask what water flow temps were you getting from the unit?

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hi guys, just in the process of installing Daikin Altherma system, i will keep you posted on how it's going.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Now what I WOULD like to see is an Airconditioning system that has a heat reclaim exchanger built in....In summer you could get the majority of your hot water for free.[/QUOTE]

    SANYO GHP System all 2 pipe outdoors over 28KW can supply hotwater at 75 degrees C in cooling mode and heating mode when external ambient is above 10 degrees C

    Have a look at one might make u very happy

    TG

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    The reason I was look at the ecodan is there is no Gas where I live and Oil has gone through the roof. I'm going to replaceing the whole central heating and water system anyway so now is a good time for a change.

    However there seems to be a problem in that I need the 14kW unit which Mitsi are still developing so it looks like I'll have to look at alternatives as I need it sorted really before the end of summer.

    Any other ideas?

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    There are lots of different options if you search in the Nordic or Swiss markets.

    THIS is an interesting option.

    Otherwise you got more traditional stuff like THIS, THIS, or THAT

    Remember, abroad this type of heatpumps is old trusted technology. And if you are redesigning the whole lot you will be able to drop the flow temps, thus giving you more options for the heatpump.


    Good hunting.
    Why not visit my website: www.the-viking.eu ?

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by sinewave View Post
    The reason I was look at the ecodan is there is no Gas where I live and Oil has gone through the roof. I'm going to replaceing the whole central heating and water system anyway so now is a good time for a change.

    However there seems to be a problem in that I need the 14kW unit which Mitsi are still developing so it looks like I'll have to look at alternatives as I need it sorted really before the end of summer.

    Any other ideas?
    Does your estimate of 14kw include the hot water?

    the Daikin Altherma might be of interest as these go up to 12 kw. Do your heat loss calcs based on 40w/m2, this ignores the hot water storage but it is how to size for the Altherma.
    The one I've just installed seems to be the dogs dangly bits and I wish now that I hadn't just replaced my old gas fired boiler with a new combi unit.
    I'm back on the Pale

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    To be honest Frank I've not sized it my self, I got Mitsi Tech Engineer out from Manchester to have a look.

    They currently have the 9kW unit installed at their MD's 3/4 Deb Gaff Down Souff and it does the Heating & the Water with a pressurised Heat Store.

    Yes the flow temps are lower at a max of 55 degrees which means oversized Rads or Underfloor heating.

    Not heard of the Daikin alternative will have to have a look but to be honest I'm becomming a bit dispondent with the whole idea and may just plumb for LPG anyway!

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    Unhappy Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Anyone else got any experience with the Daikin unit or Mitsi?

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Ecodan range is quite small, DAikin offer wider range from 5 - 16kw.

    Also Mitsi uses Gledhill for the bolier side (ewwww) and the controls are by Graslin (very awkward to use).

    THe ecodan as far as i am aware utilises outside water connections, hence glycol will be required - which is going to affect COP's, plus maybe even a risk of freezing if not enough glycol used.

    Third Large and heavier than Altherma outside unit as Altherm utilises an internal Box housing pump, heat exchanger and expansion vessel which is why you dont need glycol.....

    COP's i believe based on same flow and return temps are probaby 10 - 20 % better.

    Both units from respected Manufacturers, so i suppose its down to the ususal technical factors and personal choice.

    Hope this helps.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Do your heat loss calcs based on 40w/m2, [/quote]

    If you were doing you heat loss calcs based on 40w/m2 I would be worried...That would exceed new build regulations by 5w/m2, and that is as rare as hens teeth in a retrofit and very rare in a new build...

    Sorry to say it but if you do it on 40w/m2 your heat pump will be too small and your running costs would be much higher than they should be.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Got to agree.

    Since I've been on the Altherma training course, I learned that it's now based on 50w/m2.
    I'm back on the Pale

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Any more updates to this thread yet? Hope there are some good reports to come as I am in the process of fitting the Ecodan into my house! Christ I'm cold!
    *note to self, change of home heating system to be done in summer from now on!*

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    lol, u did read my post sinewave didnt you, and yet you actually still might be colder still come Jan !!
    I know of consultant who has just ripped out the ecdan...why.....couldnt reach the flow temp in low ambient !!

    anyway goodluck ;-)

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Oh dear that is not good. It is very cold out now.

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    Thumbs up Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by Budicus View Post
    Do your heat loss calcs based on 40w/m2,
    If you were doing you heat loss calcs based on 40w/m2 I would be worried...That would exceed new build regulations by 5w/m2, and that is as rare as hens teeth in a retrofit and very rare in a new build...

    Sorry to say it but if you do it on 40w/m2 your heat pump will be too small and your running costs would be much higher than they should be.[/quote]
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Correct. The latest Daikin advice is based on 50w per m2!!

    I have attended both training courses for the Ecodan and Altherma. My username aside the Daikin is a far more versatile product with the slight upper hand on the tried and tested front too!

    The other disadvantage to EcoDan is that the outdoor unit is a packaged unit that couples to hot/cold water supply pipes only-no interconnecting refrigeration pipes to indoor unit as with Altherma. Mitsubishi state that a qualified plumber to GNVQ level three or some crap must have commissioned this side of the system. This presents warranty issues etc should us A/C chaps get on board. That personally turned me off the product-not to mention that the indoor/outdoor unit is massive!!

    Altherma has cooling options, a dedicated hydro indoor box (size of a compact combi boiler)interconnected via refrigeration copper piping. And the water tanks have solar interconnectivity options (again these are more slimline than the EcoDans water storage).

    You must have a safe handling certificate and have attended the Altherma training course to purchase this kit through Daikin I was recently advised!

    I'm also fitting my first Altherma system to a 4 bed in Surrey. We're ditching the gas supply there altogether making savings of 's. I shall do my best to keep you posted.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    hey guys, heat pumps are the way it is going now and if it is applied correctly it will work well.
    In relation to each property we must do an accurate heat load calculation on each property as they will all be different.
    Also when you are sizing it it is not just about the capacity that is required, make sure that you size them at -2 min to ensure you have that capacity when needed for the best operation.
    The Altherma is a good option, make sure you do the training course so that you don't apply it incorrectly.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by sinewave View Post
    Anyone had any experience of these or has speced one yet.


    Might be interested in instaling one in my own house!
    yes ihave installed three units

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by davej View Post
    Hi refaircon, can i ask what water flow temps were you getting from the unit?
    55 degrees max depending on ambient temp

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by sinewave View Post
    The reason I was look at the ecodan is there is no Gas where I live and Oil has gone through the roof. I'm going to replaceing the whole central heating and water system anyway so now is a good time for a change.

    However there seems to be a problem in that I need the 14kW unit which Mitsi are still developing so it looks like I'll have to look at alternatives as I need it sorted really before the end of summer.

    Any other ideas?
    i have installed both mitsibushi and daikin prefer daikin mitsibushi unit is now developed i have installed three

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hi

    I installed a Mitsibushi Ecodan air source heat pump system last August. I have had a miserable winter.

    First the system does work, heat is collected from the outside, even at sub-zero. However, the good news ends there. It is a new technology and a chose a local installer from those approved by Mitsibushi on a list they supplied. The dealer also featured in their publicity brochure and video. I am a pensioner and have no heating knowledge and had to rely on the installer, particularly with the Mitsibushi recommendation behind him.

    I now appreciate how important it is that heat loss calculations are carried out on the property for a retro fit. It has become very clear in hindsight, that this was not done and that the heat pump is under size. My house is well protected with cavity wall, double glazing and well insulated loft, but the installer failed to do the basics, although I gave him all the room sizes when he surveyed the property. The heat runs through the system (assuming a correct size Ecodan) at 55 degrees, instead of around 70 for a oil/gas installation. Therefore, all radiators have to be changed to increase the surface area by about a third.

    In addition to an undersized system - the warmest the lounge has got through the winter is 17, on coldest days 14 - the Ecodan comes packaged with a Gledhill tank. This has been nothing but a problem. It is difficult to program times, but more importantly we have had trouble with elements of it, including needing new printed circuit boards and being without any heating or hot water for a week while they were replaced.

    My advice, is look very carefully, if it is a retro fit. Check out the installer (I thought I had since Mitsibushi featured them so strongly) and be very careful to look close at the unit which comes with the air pump. This unit drives the whole process and is the 'brains' of the system. Additionally, since it will become a sealed system under mains pressure, you have to be very sure of all joints etc in the existing system we found this out the hard way!

    Despite visits from the installer and Mitsubishi (supposedly their top man on Ecodan/Gledhill) no significant improvements have been achieved though some tinkering with the system has gone on to very minor effect. My wife and I have suffered chest colds all winter and have been ill, we are now seriously looking at facing the cost of replacing the Ecodan with oil during the summer. We cannot have another winter like the last.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hi Pollardspark, i install the Daikin equivilant called Altherma. Now they recommend Low temperature rads because of the lower flow temperatures and calculating heatlosses for the rooms.

    When i enquired about using normal rads for Altherma the Daikin tech person said he would double the size of the rads if i were to use them for each room.

    Have you tried contacting Mitsubishi directly to confront the issue of the undersizing.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hi to all in this discussion. I am completely new to this and have read every comment to date.

    I am in Northern Ireland and where I live there is no piped gas, and although oil prices now are fairly stable compared to the roller coaster we had last year, I am faced with knowing I have to replace a 15+ year old oil boiler for both central heating and hot water. The system has no water only separation for summer, and no thermostat for heating. Just the one simple dial on the boiler for water temperature! Bizarre, I know, but this believe it or not, is typical of heating systems installed during 70's and 80's in my area.

    With an old, inefficient boiler I am well aware I am overspending hundreds of 's a year on oil, and the rads furthest from the boiler are barely tepid.

    So, last week I began to look for prices of an efficient replacement boiler, and lo and behold, I accidentally stumbled upon 'Ecodan.' With immediate excitement I though this was the holy grail, and wondered why I'd never heard of this before. When I saw Mit's charts I could save half my running costs, even if I had a modern oil boiler, and with the fact mine is 15+ think of the even greater saving... Great!

    And then I read this forum... Is it all it's cracked up to be? Why are there so many problems? Some concerns over outdoor location and freezing water... how do they do it in Scandinavia? Inappropriate sizing spec / surveys? All the peripheral bits to the system? High pressure... I don't want to find out that my whole house needs to be re-plumbed with a new leak springing up every week! The Daikin Altherma seems to have fewer issues. What about 55C max water temps on the Mits?

    I'm no eco-warrior but 50% less CO2 would feel like I'm making a my own small contributuion to our planet.

    The initial enthusiasm has now been curbed... Is it just better for me to stick to oil for now and to come back to this in another 10-15 years? Is it too naive to learn how Scandinavians have made this work and replicate their models?

    I know I'm new to this, but I need someone to restore my belief that this is the best way to go in terms of reliability, heat control and delivery, separate heating and water control, and COST! What are typical costs for a 4 bedroom semi? I did a btu calc for an oil boiler replacement and it came out with a number of approx 60000. I don't have a clue what that means really, but can a heat pump system cope ok with that (please excuse my ignorance...). Someone mentioned a Sanyo system a while back which allows water temperature of 75C - Eco was only 55, don't know if Altherma is any dfferent, but if I recall correctly it can also be linked to solar panels??? Doe that have any significant bearing?

    And on the issue of cost, and specifically in a retrofit situation, what are the chances of grant assistance? Eco considerations may have to be put to one side if costings are stupid!

    Does anyone have contacts in Northern Ireland who I could refer to?

    All input so far has been useful, but I need some expert advice to consider this any further.

    Kesh

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    kesh

    try looking at this thread to restore your eco faith, i'd have no probs installing one of these if upgrading/replacing our existing set up.

    http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...aikin+altherma

    al

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hello al, a fellow Irishman

    Cheers for the link to that thread.

    Frank, you seem to be THE man to ask, so if you're still viewing this forum can you tell us how your mate's electricity bill went over the last 6 months, and how well the sytem operated during the winter months? Have you had any grief down the boozer?

    It was great to hear that between June and Sept 2008, you measured the cost at 20 extra to run the ASHP, with the solar input. But realistically, the real test would have been October to now, when the solar's input would have been at its lowest. Is it possible to post an update? Was there a massive hike in his lekky bill? Is he still talking to you?

    As I posted yesterday, my concerns are 2-fold.
    1. Capital cost of solar + (most probably) Altherma -v- simple replacement of an old oil boiler
    2. Running costs... I don't just want to replace an oil boiler costing me a fortune (1500-1600 typically - ouch!) with an electricity bill going through the roof.

    Hey, I'm not really being a doom-monger nor do I want to come over as unduely sceptical... actually, I just don't know enough about all this... I so want to believe it'd be worth it.

    If I just swapped out for a new boiler now (recently estimated at 1000 supplied and installed) I reckon my oil bill would be down to 800-900. Maximum year 1 cost about 2k and no grant towards this.

    What's the outlay for a typical solar + ASHP system, and year 1 running cost? It may all come down to simple economics. Essentially, the difference in capital outlay has to have a payback, and the sooner the better.

    Would I be much or indeed any better off with solar + ASHP, even after 5 years? And then there seem to be all those caveats about how energy efficient / leaky the house has to be for optimal conditions for the all important COP figures to stack up...........

    Kesh

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by Pollardspark View Post
    Hi

    we are now seriously looking at facing the cost of replacing the Ecodan with oil during the summer. We cannot have another winter like the last.

    before you rip it out and install a new system consider if you replace the radiators with fan coil units. These have a radiator similar to a car radiator that blows air through to heat the room up. This would be perfect for the temperature of the water flowign through. Plus you would have cooling in summer also I think.

    Because a radiator doesnt move air the room temp slowly increases and if the rads havent been oversized for the rooms then this is why you cannot raise the temps.

    Cheaper option is to replace the rads with fan assisted units.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hi Kesh the cost of a top ashp like the Daikin Altherma is not cheap but they have just been given the acceptance by the EU that Heat pumps are a renewable source of energy and that the UK are i believe, giving tax breaks or grants towards a new installations.

    But as for calculating the correct size the only way is to carry out a heat loss calculation to your property.

    If your house has good insulation then the size of the heat pump reducers in capacity.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesh-NI View Post
    Hello al, a fellow Irishman

    Cheers for the link to that thread.

    Frank, you seem to be THE man to ask, so if you're still viewing this forum can you tell us how your mate's electricity bill went over the last 6 months, and how well the sytem operated during the winter months? Have you had any grief down the boozer?

    It was great to hear that between June and Sept 2008, you measured the cost at 20 extra to run the ASHP, with the solar input. But realistically, the real test would have been October to now, when the solar's input would have been at its lowest. Is it possible to post an update? Was there a massive hike in his lekky bill? Is he still talking to you?

    As I posted yesterday, my concerns are 2-fold.
    1. Capital cost of solar + (most probably) Altherma -v- simple replacement of an old oil boiler
    2. Running costs... I don't just want to replace an oil boiler costing me a fortune (1500-1600 typically - ouch!) with an electricity bill going through the roof.

    Hey, I'm not really being a doom-monger nor do I want to come over as unduely sceptical... actually, I just don't know enough about all this... I so want to believe it'd be worth it.

    If I just swapped out for a new boiler now (recently estimated at 1000 supplied and installed) I reckon my oil bill would be down to 800-900. Maximum year 1 cost about 2k and no grant towards this.

    What's the outlay for a typical solar + ASHP system, and year 1 running cost? It may all come down to simple economics. Essentially, the difference in capital outlay has to have a payback, and the sooner the better.

    Would I be much or indeed any better off with solar + ASHP, even after 5 years? And then there seem to be all those caveats about how energy efficient / leaky the house has to be for optimal conditions for the all important COP figures to stack up...........

    Kesh
    Since the install was carried out, I'm not getting any grief down the pub - now I get the odd pint for free

    Spoke to the man today actually on the phone - he was asking how the install for the nice people he invited around to view his system was going. I said that it was finished on Friday and that, looking at the nice weather we had on Sunday, I could imagine very big grins on their faces just watching the hot water cylinder heat up for free!!

    The original system that was mentioned at the start of this thread has now been operating for 11 months. The total electricity cost, including some Economy 7 is 230. The total cost for this month (March) is just over 10. It looks like the first years energy cost will be less than 250. Not bad when you consider that the oil spend was in the region of 1900/year.

    I'll see if I can get a copy of the speadsheet he's been keeping.
    I'm back on the Pale

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    nice one frank !

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Good evening Frank and Debonair Spain

    Thanks for the advice DS, and Frank that's very welcome news about the estimated costs over the year.

    DS, I wouldn't know how to calculate heat loss so again a bit of advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Also, as informative as the web is, I'm having difficulty finding a price list for the essential components I would need. Can anyone suggest a good source in Northern Ireland, or do I have to get Frank over? By the way, it sounds like the electricity savings are funding his visits to the pub!

  36. #36
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesh-NI View Post
    Good evening Frank and Debonair Spain

    Thanks for the advice DS, and Frank that's very welcome news about the estimated costs over the year.

    DS, I wouldn't know how to calculate heat loss so again a bit of advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Also, as informative as the web is, I'm having difficulty finding a price list for the essential components I would need. Can anyone suggest a good source in Northern Ireland, or do I have to get Frank over? By the way, it sounds like the electricity savings are funding his visits to the pub!
    Hi Kesh heatloss is based on how well your property is built to stop the heat from escaping through walls, windows and doors, ie type of bricks used, type of insulation used, type of windows double or triple glazing and floor and ceiling make up as well. And not forgetting the size of the house.

    This is why England is using low capacity Altherma systems compared to Spain because English houses are built to try and stop the heat from escaping where Spanish houses are built to lose the heat.

    I found plumbingpages.com quite useful.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Debonair Spain; 01-04-2009 at 02:02 PM. Reason: wrong website address

  37. #37
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    try visiting www.altherma.co.uk

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hello there,

    I have just installed a new heating system in my renovation project. I have a 280 litre thermal store connected to Vaillant solar panels with a mixture of underfloor heating and radiators. Temporarily I have a 9KW boiler connected to the store (it was free!) but would like to replace it with an ASHP in the next few months. Question is can the Altherma unit be connected to an existing system or does it require all the components supplied by them (hydro box and cylinder)? If not then is the Mitsubishi the best solution?
    Thanks for any advice, Dan

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    A thermal store should be able to take heated water from a variety of sources, as you are demonstrating with solar and a 9kw boiler. With appropriate connections you can add a heat pump, but you will be circulating WATER from the heat pump system into the thermal store. So, because both Altherma and EcoDan have separate "hydro box" (heat exchanger) units to transfer the heat from the refridgerant to a water circuit, you would need that unit.
    Some Air to water ASHP's have the air to water heat exchanger built into the one outdoor unit so that you have no refridgerant installation work, no hydro box, and only have to circulate the water into your system.

  40. #40
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    in relation to your heating system, what ever heat pump you decide to go for you will have to be careful as the temperature of a thermal store can get up to excessivly high temperatures depending what is connected to it.
    I am not a fan of thermal stores due to the fact that when no solar is avaliable you have to heat the thermal store to a high temperature which is generally costly and a waste of energy.
    If you were to separate your hot water requirements from your space heating requirements you are able to sucessfully only heat up a small amount of water in an indirect coil to heat the hot water cylinder instead of heating 300 litres of thermal store to give you your hot water.
    I have worked on a few thermal stores with heat pumps and what i have noticed is that the customer in all cases has had expensive electric bills due to the fact they are heating up too much hot water, same goes with buffer tanks.
    A good heat pump will not require a buffer tank to be used.
    you are best to connect your solar to domestic hot water and use the heat pump to do the space heating, this way you can have 2 setpoints, space heating at a lower temperature than the domestic hot water which will increase your efficiency.

  41. #41
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by back2space View Post
    before you rip it out and install a new system consider if you replace the radiators with fan coil units. These have a radiator similar to a car radiator that blows air through to heat the room up. This would be perfect for the temperature of the water flowign through. Plus you would have cooling in summer also I think.

    Because a radiator doesnt move air the room temp slowly increases and if the rads havent been oversized for the rooms then this is why you cannot raise the temps.

    Cheaper option is to replace the rads with fan assisted units.
    I totally agree with this analysis. The fact that the system is able to maintain 55C water while the rooms are underheated tells us that the problem lies in between the rooms and the water. In other words, the radiators are unable to transfer sufficient heat from the water to the rooms.
    Last edited by Gary; 28-05-2009 at 09:12 PM.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Any heating engineer worth his salt will tell you that the rads have to be oversized.. Roughly by 30%. Fan coils where as good are noisy and high maintainance. Underfloor is ideal for heat pumps.

    As for Gledhill heat banks... Good riddance to bad rubbish, I've never met a Gledhill sludge bucket that didn't leak... A nice idea but badly made..
    Karl

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    daikin have the new monobloc system out....superior product in my opinion.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    hi there kesh, give me a buzz regarding the ecodan ashp, ive just installed one in my home in derry,its 2800sq ft, your welcome to come and check it out and ill give u a run through on the system, ill give u an unbeatable price on ecodan, and they need to be teamed up with correct water cylinder with specific coil sizes to work properly, my number is 07846080302 paul

  45. #45
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Hi Paul, I am currently doing drawings for a new house in Derry (about 2400 sft) I am looking at options for a Ecodan and as you have just installed one could you tell me the reasons why you installed this over other options and wether you used radiators or underfloor.
    Thanks in advance,

    Murf.

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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    I would say to all those considering ASHP for UK heating that they should serioulsy consider either the Hitachi Yutaki or the Sanyo CO2 Eco.

    Both these units have had extensive R & D and pose the most realistic threat to traditional heating sources (boilers).

    The Sanyo, in particular, is currently the only ASHP able to allow DHW storge at 65 C (using heatpump alone) at minus 20 C and has sufficient built in backup/redundancy heating in case everything turns to Rat S**T ! As it comes as a matched package, it's the one least likely to give aggro.

    You get what you pay for!!

  47. #47
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Quote Originally Posted by airconwarehouse View Post
    I would say to all those considering ASHP for UK heating that they should serioulsy consider either the Hitachi Yutaki or the Sanyo CO2 Eco.

    Both these units have had extensive R & D and pose the most realistic threat to traditional heating sources (boilers).

    The Sanyo, in particular, is currently the only ASHP able to allow DHW storge at 65 C (using heatpump alone) at minus 20 C and has sufficient built in backup/redundancy heating in case everything turns to Rat S**T ! As it comes as a matched package, it's the one least likely to give aggro.

    You get what you pay for!!
    I would be keen on seeing some data tables and specs at the different temperatures to show the heat pump output?

    Can you provide a link?

  48. #48
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    http
    :
    //
    eu.sanyo.com/
    AssetBrowser/
    Air%20Conditioning%20Docs/
    Brochures/
    SANYO_CO2_ECO_Heating_System_v1.pdf

    Note it is 3.6 Mb. See page 11.
    65degC output temp
    At +7 degC air temp the COP is 3.1
    At -15 degC air temp the COP is 1.8

    So maybe not as efficient as HFC above zero air temp, but producing 65 water output temp must affect it.

  49. #49
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Daikin Altherma have released a high temperature range which operates to temperatures of up to 80 degrees.
    The perfect solution for UK climates which most tech's will be able to work on which is a great solution by the looks of it.

  50. #50
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    Re: Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

    Does seem good the daikin versioN!

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