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Thread: R134A Ban in Switzerland
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17-12-2007, 09:48 AM #101
Re: R134A Ban in Switzerland
No - Not one sensible answer.
Lots of useless facts and figures, but not one person has actually read the question and responded to it.
too busy getting their own point across in petty arguments unfortunatley,
If anyone does actually have an answer to the opening question it would be appreciated.
Thanks
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17-12-2007, 12:08 PM #102
Re: R134A Ban in Switzerland
.
Quite right. This thread disappeared into nonsense long ago.
But, what did the Swiss authorities say?
Have you asked them?
.
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18-12-2007, 06:01 PM #103
Re: R134A Ban in Switzerland
134a is the worse schitt they made. I'll be glad when it's gone. was it just coincidence that they banned r12 the same time duponts patent ran out? I like "hot shot". put it right on top of r12 and is a replacement for 134a.
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27-12-2007, 11:42 PM #104
Banning is more political than engineering reality
Most refrigerant replacement occurs when a company's license expires & generics flood the markets -- for example Dupont R12 & R22 patents expired so they come up with 134a & 410a to attemp to control the market.
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27-12-2007, 11:45 PM #105
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27-12-2007, 11:52 PM #106
Global warming is CO2 based, not refrigerant
CO2 emissions from power plants, especially coal, cause 10 times more global warming than refrigerants.
Next we need to consider cars & trucks.
CO2 causes global warming -- refrigerants cause ozone depletion that can cause skin cancers, etc.
Hey -- why not capture the CO2 emissions from these processes for refrigeration -- know that's a novel idea!
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28-12-2007, 12:03 AM #107
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Re: I disagree with this statement
I disagree with this statement.
Every system leak, even "hermetically sealed", no matter how good is commissioned, only difference is how much.
If every step of commissioning is done with great care and expertize, than we could expect many years without need to add refrigerant, in order to compensate for, inevitable, but small leak.
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28-12-2007, 12:14 AM #108
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Re: Global warming is CO2 based, not refrigerant
And global warming! Familiarize yourself with term Global Warming Potential (GWP).
http://tinyurl.com/2omxbd
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28-12-2007, 03:15 PM #109
Re: R134A Ban in Switzerland
What about banning Sulfur hexafluoride? Are "scientists" so busy with refrigerants?
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28-12-2007, 06:55 PM #110
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29-12-2007, 12:41 AM #111
Re: R134A Ban in Switzerland
I also heard that women in bikinis can cause testicular cancer
the key word in GWP is "Potential"
the fact is CO2, unequivocally, causes Global Warming -- based on current academic & government research -- HFC & HCFC refrigerants deplete ground level & atmospheric level ozone -- huge difference.
Some of the chiller systems that I service leak between 1 or 2 lbs a year to a few thousand lbs a year -- i've seen it all.
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29-12-2007, 01:27 AM #112
Re: R134A Ban in Switzerland
IF AT FIRST YOU DON`T SUCCEED.
DESTROY ALL EVIDENCE THAT YOU TRIED!
and go get a cuppa
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03-01-2008, 09:58 AM #113
Re: R134A Ban in Switzerland
Here is a reply from the Danfoss product manager in Switzerland Dominik Regenass:
To my knowlegde, there is no change for any refrigerant in Switzerland for the 1.1.2008
It's true that we have since 1.1.2004 a kind of license for new plants with more than 3kg HFKW.
But it's not prohibited to use this refrigerant.
You have to argue why to use a HFKW and you have to argue why a natural refrigerant is not possible to use.
For HFKW plants with more than 3kg, you must have a maintenance and service document and also a checkup of density (thightness).
There must be a technical service on those plants at least once a year and you have to document this.
See the following text from an official document:
The construction of equipment for refrigeration, air conditioning and heat pumps containing
more than 3 kg of refrigerants stable in the air - mainly hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) - has been
subject to licensing since 1 January 2004. A licence is granted if, according to the current state
of technology, no alternative substances or other technologies are available, and emissions are
restricted as far as possible. This guide is intended to provide practical help for the implementation
of licensing. It defines the current state of technology for different fields of application
(trade, industry and air conditioning). It includes compatibility with the environment, energy
efficiency, the level of technological development, reliability in operation, availability on the
market, economic acceptability and the safety of persons and of the environment. Since the state
of technology is evolving, the guide is updated periodically.
Regards Jorgen Bargsteen Moller, Danfoss
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03-01-2008, 10:31 AM #114
Re: R134A Ban in Switzerland
Jorgen,
Many thanks for throwing some light on this subject and bringing it back on topic.
From your explanation and recognising the fact that Switzerland is not an EU country, the measures in place there for F Gas plant echo and predate some of the requirements in the current new EU F Gas regulation, especially leak tightness and regular checks.
As far a permitted licensing of plant is concerned, as you describe in the second part of your post, it seems similar to the current rules in other European countries, notably Holland, Sweden etc.
It may seem odd to some in the UK and elsewhere, where the use and sale of refrigerants is virtually unregulated, but some countries have more stringent rules, though not particularly onerous in my opinion.
.
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