Wr closes branches

[panda]

Just wanted to wish my best to all the staff involved in the sad news announced today. I hope the directors and hurre management are pleased with themselves.what a shame.especially as when the end users get news of this, messers cole & co can look out!!!!!!

[multisync]

We heard it was worse than few branches worth of bad..

[albionharley]

which branches have gone ?

[drew30]

about 11 all over the country

[albionharley]

Any idea which ones ?

[coolhibby1875]

Although 10 branches are closing there will be no engineers losing there jobs the branches that are closing are ones where branches are less than 30 miles from other branches.is even though there are 10 closing there will still be 14 operating as normall covering the same contracts with the same engineers is there any other companys out there with the same amount of branches i dont think there is.so as its a shame there will be administration jobs going its not all doom and gloom wr are just reacting to the current financial restraints that every other outfit are also feeling and i suppose they are lucky they have 10 branches they can close as if it was any of there competitors they simply do not have the luxury of being able to do that so i suppose it would be curtains for them.

[tony--1]

Although 10 branches are closing there will be no engineers losing there jobs the branches that are closing are ones where branches are less than 30 miles from other branches.is even though there are 10 closing there will still be 14 operating as normall covering the same contracts with the same engineers is there any other companys out there with the same amount of branches i dont think there is.so as its a shame there will be administration jobs going its not all doom and gloom wr are just reacting to the current financial restraints that every other outfit are also feeling and i suppose they are lucky they have 10 branches they can close as if it was any of there competitors they simply do not have the luxury of being able to do that so i suppose it would be curtains for them.

agreeded no engineers going so work as normal . its a shame for the admin staff . they work hard too . good luck to all .

[panda]

Coolhibby.You obviously believe all the under manager C**e says.Cast your mind back, don't you think this has happened before with all the other firms that went down the crapper.The problem with WR is that all the decent Wathes management got out when they sold the firm,the ones that are left have a sad CV of failed management behind them Botts,Westwards,Lavendon group etc.And to be honest when the big end users see whats happening with WR unfortunately you are all due for your P45's.The engineers if you care to can verse opinion will do what they always do and vote with their feet probably to your so called competitors with less than 14 branches,the thing is their keeping the work and growing, WR are shinking are they not!Sorry to be pessimistic but your loony tunes if you believe your so called directors hipe,you'll all be gone by the summer.

[tony--1]

Panda you a p***** off .
are from a branch thats closing ?
not going to be good for a lot ov ppl .
NOT JUST WR !!! every1 going to feel the tuff times ahead .

[CJG21]

Sad to see people get laid off. Is this a start of a company in decline? I hear they have been undercutting everyone to get the work and sometimes at just above cost

[coolhibby1875]

I doesnt take a brain surgeon to work it out you cant make money running with 24 branches wr have just won 2 massive contracts in the last 2 weeks on top of all the other massive contracts they have.
Panda its poeple like you with a negitive outlook on things that worry people quoting things like p45,s and engineers voting with thier feet like i said before its sad good people in admin roles will lose thier jobs but wr should have done this years ago if i had the choice i would have closed more maybee keep 5 at most as i said before which one of there competitors even have 5.

[bernard]

We lost a few engineers to WR,there was no fight to keep them,they were of very poor standard.These type of engineers are the ones who are bringing WR down.

They say its the best move they ever made,I wonder why ????

[coolhibby1875]

Bernard why the negitive coments 1:having a pop at your fellow engineers and 2:wr are not going down and they probally say its the best move they ever made to get to get away from a company where all the engineers think they are the bees knees!

[bernard]

1. I have no time for lazy people and you know they are out there.2.The sooner W.r. gets back up there the better it will be for all engineers hourly rate.Wr management having fallen asleep and lost touch.

This is only my opion from what I see and hear.

Regards B

[tony--1]

bernard agreeded .

about the engineers .

its a big place for them to hide but they will be found out in time . they are the ones that the rest carry . LAZY AND LYING M.F

WR is still alive and kicking
and will be for a long time to come

[bernard]

bernard agreeded .

about the engineers .

its a big place for them to hide but they will be found out in time . they are the ones that the rest carry . LAZY AND LYING M.F

WR is still alive and kicking
and will be for a long time to come

Good luck,it only takes a few positive chargehands/engineers to change an area/company.

Kind Regards Bernard

[GHAZ]

Hi guys reading these forums about engineer standards ,i think the engineers are not trained properly , they get a refrigerant handling certificate and are assumed that they now everything , or they are shown something like parrot fashion and the top supervisor or charge hands do the wiring or panel work and the basic engineer is there to mop up the oil or just show up .

[supermarketguy]

This side of the industry has been undervalued for years and we are in a climate at present that companies want to keep working. This is why we are undercutting each other.

Although it dosent help that all retailers at present are asking for a 20% reduction in prices, despite giving them 15% last year.

WR are just doing what the have to do, so that they can stay in buisness.

If anybody should shoulder a large percentage of the blame it is the retaliers, as they have being cutting the margins for years and the companies involved do not have the money to invest in proper training and apprentices.

If you look at the majority of kids that do come into the industry it is from the smaller companies and not the bigger companies.

All you retailers out there who view these boards, Yes the guys who sit upon high and decide who get the contracts and spend a fortune on energy management in all the stores.

You really need to get a grip and start investing and helping your contractors invest with people on the ground as there will come a point that you will not have the people to give you the level of service that you want and to be honest i think we are at this stage now

All companies that are servicing the retailers are struggling to get good engineers and all the good guys are moving to other parts of the industry, as they feel that they are either undervalued or not progressing.

Sorry for the rant but it annoys me when engineers on the boards have a go at each other and their companies, rather than direct the issues to the people who actaully have a big say on how this side of the industry progresses now and in the future.

i myself have been in this side of the industry since i left school at 16 and have seen the decline over this period.

So if you guys have issues take it out on the retailers!!!!!

[coolhibby1875]

supermarketguy i agree 100% percent with you. Tesco for example will spend tens of million of pounds on sonic and mimic equipment to 15 year old packs, they will fit ec fan motors to 15 year old packs, but never involve the fridge service provider in this so you go along because they have triped this or triped that or lost the gas out of receivers and leave the fridge guys to pick up the pieces. They are fitting new einstiens and then leaving site with all the store layout drawings and the poor fridge guy gets left in the sh//e when all goes tits up, engineers have now just about had enough and who could blame them the likes of tesco and sainsburys will soon have to bite the bullit and pay more because there will be no one left to fix their fridges when they break down. I blame the fm companies myself.

[multisync]

The big supermarkets work on the old adage "There's a sucker born every minute"

How many big fridge companies need to go bust before the industry calls enough?
Nope along comes another sucker who thinks "They can't outsmart me" and fall into the same trap every other fridge company stupid enough to chase the supermarket dollar.

I say good luck to them -you made your bed, you helped destroy a once proud industry and now you want to blame them...Bunch of spineless wonders too scared to stand up to them..

Get together and collectively say "NO" then see their shops shut one by one as the food goes off..bet you in a million years the trade hasn't the balls for it..so bend over and take it like you've done for the last 20+ years...

Blame them..you're havin a larf.

[coolhibby1875]

Its all fine and well multisync to blame the companys and i agree with you but now engineers have had enough and without the engineers the companys cant tender for the work.

[supermarketguy]

The reality of not enough experienced engineers will kick in, when the retailers start using C02 in the majority of their stores.

Now i dont know how many supermarket engineers will take to this type of system, as from my experience a lot of guys just dont want to know and would rather retailers carried on using R404a systems.

Some engineers will be able to get their heads round it and some will not, those who cant could become a danger to others.

It would be intresting to see who has/is currently working on these systems and what their experiences have been.

This is wh the retailers need to get behind companis and support them in the long term.

Its true what Multisync says there is a trail of contractors who have went down, especially if Tesco are involved and there will always be some one to step in.But there must come a point when another contractor goes down,and other contracting companies think is it really worth taking the risk.

We had the scenario last year with Sainsburys, when Denman went down and Sainsbo's got the fright of their life and another contractor steped in at the last minute.

It will be a continued cycle, but one day somebody may not step in and they will be left high and dry.

[superswill]

This side of the industry has been undervalued for years and we are in a climate at present that companies want to keep working. This is why we are undercutting each other.

Although it dosent help that all retailers at present are asking for a 20% reduction in prices, despite giving them 15% last year.

WR are just doing what the have to do, so that they can stay in buisness.

If anybody should shoulder a large percentage of the blame it is the retaliers, as they have being cutting the margins for years and the companies involved do not have the money to invest in proper training and apprentices.

If you look at the majority of kids that do come into the industry it is from the smaller companies and not the bigger companies.

All you retailers out there who view these boards, Yes the guys who sit upon high and decide who get the contracts and spend a fortune on energy management in all the stores.

You really need to get a grip and start investing and helping your contractors invest with people on the ground as there will come a point that you will not have the people to give you the level of service that you want and to be honest i think we are at this stage now

All companies that are servicing the retailers are struggling to get good engineers and all the good guys are moving to other parts of the industry, as they feel that they are either undervalued or not progressing.

Sorry for the rant but it annoys me when engineers on the boards have a go at each other and their companies, rather than direct the issues to the people who actaully have a big say on how this side of the industry progresses now and in the future.

i myself have been in this side of the industry since i left school at 16 and have seen the decline over this period.

So if you guys have issues take it out on the retailers!!!!!

fantastic post SG

[taz24]

The reality of not enough experienced engineers will kick in, when the retailers start using C02 in the majority of their stores.

Now i dont know how many supermarket engineers will take to this type of system, as from my experience a lot of guys just dont want to know and would rather retailers carried on using R404a systems.

Some engineers will be able to get their heads round it and some will not, those who cant could become a danger to others.

It would be intresting to see who has/is currently working on these systems and what their experiences have been.

This is wh the retailers need to get behind companis and support them in the long term.

Its true what Multisync says there is a trail of contractors who have went down, especially if Tesco are involved and there will always be some one to step in.But there must come a point when another contractor goes down,and other contracting companies think is it really worth taking the risk.

We had the scenario last year with Sainsburys, when Denman went down and Sainsbo's got the fright of their life and another contractor steped in at the last minute.

It will be a continued cycle, but one day somebody may not step in and they will be left high and dry.

I'm a bit older than you supermarketguy and I have been doing fridge since I was 16 as well.

I worked with Hussmanns and I will never ever forget the time when our branch manager went to a supermarket to negotiate the contract fotr the next year. When he walked in he was charging £92 each hp and wanted the price increased with inflation. When he walked out it was £80 each hp.

That was back when Hussmann was one of the big hitters, they are no more now.

taz.

[coolhibby1875]

good point supermarket guy me and my mates at work are not intrested in co2 and dont want to be either was in a m@s with the installing contractor he switched of the plant after 5 mins there were prv,s blowing left right and centre i **** myself big time.

[multisync]

I'm a bit older than you supermarketguy and I have been doing fridge since I was 16 as well.

I worked with Hussmanns and I will never ever forget the time when our branch manager went to a supermarket to negotiate the contract fotr the next year. When he walked in he was charging £92 each hp and wanted the price increased with inflation. When he walked out it was £80 each hp.

That was back when Hussmann was one of the big hitters, they are no more now.

taz.

You prove my point, along with Hussman went O'G's DES Stanley's Westward and -well lets have a list

we're not the supermarket game -when asked, Boss politely declined the CO-OP tender for the UK refit work and they are one of the better ones.

We still pull it out when we feel hard done by, It's got questions like
"What is your price to fit a 1-3/8 90 bend..?"
you gotta larf at the stupidity of those who actually put a number in that box thinking they will make money out of these jobs ;-)

I remember seeing a documentary aout New York skyscrapers being built. One of the contractors stoped turned to the main guy and said "If you want to keep f**king me, you have to kiss me every now and again"

I hope CO2 does make the industry stop and think a kiss is long over due

[panda]

Good posts guys.SupermarketGuy I though you raised some superb points re energy and Retailers not having a clue at whats going on the Industry.Regarding C02 I believe the service manager at one Wr Branch in Scotland said he could knock a rig up in 2 hours flat according to one of the Morrisons fridge guys who realised he was talking c**p.I'm told the M & S Co2 course with Arnold Scwarneger(instructor) is superb.I just wanted to reiterate how sorry I am to the people who are on the scrapheap from March 16th hope all the suits in Thurmaston are happy with themselves.Lets see how WR Manchester copes with the extra influx or work/engineers. Good luck to all at WR and in the industry! I think we will need it.

[Grizzly]

Not on your side of the fence Guys.
But have been there so I know how unpleasant it all is.
I was talking to a WR Engineer today who was ex Hussman.
Same old same old was his reply.
Apparently 50% of the depots are to close.
I don't know what amount that is but it is a high percentage none the less.

Good Luck for anyone involved and I hope things get better.
Grizzly

[Brian_UK]

Multisync
We still pull it out when we feel hard done by, It's got questions like
"What is your price to fit a 1-3/8 90 bend..?"
you gotta larf at the stupidity of those who actually put a number in that box thinking they will make money out of these jobs

I don't/haven't done supermarkets but sympathize with you all.

Regarding the above by MS reminded me of my earlier days with HVAC sub-contracting and "Bills of Quantities" used to price contracts.

The way to make money out of that sort of question is by using a BoQ schedule.

Very simplistic but it goes something like this -

(All prices well off reality, just numbers)

Price to install - 50,000

Change compressor - 5,000 + materials at cost+
Fit 1 1/8 fitting - 1,000
Fit condenser fan - 250
etc

The plan being that the initial install is a one off cost which should have covered all eventualities.

When you come to change a single pipe fitting you know that it involves a lot of labour time, pumping down, cutting out, fitting, pressure testing etc, and you price accordingly.

Then, if and when you have to change a fitting you have a written guarantee of making a profit (as long as yoou have priced it properly).

The fact that the fitting only costs 10 is irrelevant, it is the fact that your BoQ has been accepted as part of the contract.

I don't know if it is done this way or not and if not then perhaps it is time to change.

[coolhibby1875]

hi panda i take it you work out of a branch that is being merged?

[tony--1]

i asked that b4 . hes knows alot about it ?

[CJG21]

We can blame the supermarkets if we want and call for companies to show a bit of back-bone but I cant see it happening. Recently 4 installers have agreed to take a 20% cut for Sainsburys. WR can say what they want but they are undercutting everyone in the industry....hardly moral is it?????

[WebRam]

I heard that a major building company has told a major supermarket that they will not cut their costs any further, as a result they will no longer be building their supermarkets. I suppose its a start.

[Colin G]

I'm told the M & S Co2 course with Arnold Scwarneger(instructor) is superb.

would that be thomas carlson your referring to, the co2 brain box?

been to one of his courses a few year ago in white city, very interesting guy! knows his stuff.