FX56 Drop in gas

[gspatch]

Anybody used FX56 made by Elf Atochem ?
If so how did it perform and were there any changes required
besides new drier.
Any comments

[Andy]

gspatch,
What is the R400 number for this refrigerant? Having said that most of these drop-in mixes actually improve system performance, with usually a smaller charge.
Regards. Andy.

[Gary]

FX56 is R409A.

[herefishy]

I use 409A regularly. Pressures are higher. I do not use it in any medium temp Tecumseh equipment, because they admit that they do not have enough condenser coil to operate with 409A in Central Texas summer conditions (ambients up to 110degF).

I check max evap temp of equipment that I am going to utilize a replacement (for r-12) carefully, and if the unit too near the max at design, I will use 416A (in med. temp only). In a low temp (R-12) application, I have had no problems at all (even in Tecumseh equipment). However, I find any low-temp R-12 to be pretty rare anymore.

[Andy]

Hi,
I tend to use 401a instead, this has a slightly higher head pressure compared with that of R12, due to the UK ambients I have not had any cases where a cmpressor burn-out has occured due to the gas change. On the other hand I fitted R409a to friends bulk milk tank and the condenser gave up the next summer.
Regards. Andy.

[superheat]

I predict that most new restuarant equipment will be using 404 in a couple of years. It is the only true low temp ***** out there. I am seeing alot more 404 medium temp systems. I have not seen any 507 systems, why is that ***** on my gages?

[ghg]

FX-56, in addition to "too much R22",
and hence higher head pressures,
also may have mineral oil return problems
below 32F. Below 32F, mineral oil
(150 SUS), goes "two phase", and may or may
not return, depending on equipment geometry
and line velocities.

Two R-12 replacements that I invented,
R-406A, and R-414A, have mineral oil two
phase points of around -40F and -10F and lower
head pressures than FX-56. One could also
use Alkylbenzene oil to get good oil return
since it's two phase points are much lower
than regular mineral oil. Whirlpool distributes
R-414A in the US, but I doubt if either
R406A or R414A is avail in Europe.

Atofina (formly Atochem), who invented FX-56,
according to the grapevine, has submitted
a new HFC blend, Dimethyl Ether, R125/R134a
to ASHRAE for an R-number. While it may be
weakly flammable, it should make an excellent
R12 replacment as well.

--ghg, www.autofrost.com

[Prof Sporlan]

Atofina (formly Atochem), who invented FX-56, according to the grapevine, has submitted a new HFC blend, Dimethyl Ether, R125/R134a

Curious why one would use dimethyl ether, a somewhat expensive gas, as opposed to a less expensive propane or butane series gas. Or is the Prof confused with gas costs?

[ghg]

Dupont makes it is "propellant", and also
several research projects underway to use
DME as a cleaner burning substitute for
diesel fuel..

It appears to just be expensive, when
purchased from specialty gas suppliers..

DME has excellent affinity for mineral oil,
and dissolves in it well (GHG-X6 used DME).

Also, boiling point of DME is about -11F,
which is close to R134a at -14.7F.. so the
R134a will inert much of the DME's
flammability. Nearby "cheap" hydrocarbons are
isobutane, with BP of +10F, and propane
with BP of -44F. Neither is close to the
BP of R134a.

--ghg

ps. How do your dry-eyes (See-Alls) and
Driers work with DME? CH3-O-CH3 ?

[Prof Sporlan]

How do your dry-eyes (See-Alls) and Driers work with DME? CH3-O-CH3 ?

See-All change points and filter-drier water capacity will depend upon the refrigerant's water solubility. If DME has a water solubility similar to one of the standard refrigerants, you can generally be safe with change point and water capacity data for that refrigerant.