Automotive pipe repairs.

[Karl Hofmann]

Well guys, I know that there a fair few visitors from the car repair sector, so I hope that no one minds if I do a little market reserch

Most car air con components are available at very reasonable prices these days with the exception of hoses and pipes, generally speaking these are still only available from the main agent (Pug 306 and VX Vectra excepted) so I have decided to see if there is much call for the repair of damaged alloy and flexible ac pipes. My intention is to cut out damaged sections and braze in new pipe and either splice damaged flexis or replace the flexis together with new crimp ends.

So Guys, is there a decent sized market for this kind of service?

[taz24]

So Guys, is there a decent sized market for this kind of service?

I think you maybe onto somthing.
I know from experience that a lot of the original ali pipes and other fittings are prone to corrosion due to chemical damage or electrolosis.
I have seen pipes corrode where they are taped together with the duct tape that they use and when the ali pipes or suction accumilators are clamped by steel brackets they suffer from electrolosis. Those vulcan type fittings may be used to repair or replace the old / damaged pipe.

Cheers taz.

[LRAC]

Well guys, I know that there a fair few visitors from the car repair sector, so I hope that no one minds if I do a little market reserch

Most car air con components are available at very reasonable prices these days with the exception of hoses and pipes, generally speaking these are still only available from the main agent (Pug 306 and VX Vectra excepted) so I have decided to see if there is much call for the repair of damaged alloy and flexible ac pipes. My intention is to cut out damaged sections and braze in new pipe and either splice damaged flexis or replace the flexis together with new crimp ends.

So Guys, is there a decent sized market for this kind of service?

Hi Karl
we use these people for virtually all conectors and hoses.
www.pirtek.co.uk

Regards
Lrac

[Karl Hofmann]

The Vulkan stuff is very good but the problem is the pipes seem to be designed to rot where you can't get the crimpers, so the pipe needs to be removed. I am afraid that If I used a Vulkan fitting and the mechanic twisted the pipe to get it back on to the car, then the seal on the fitting may be damaged, this is why I have decided that brazing is the best option. I've been doing it for my own work for years and have shelled out a small fortune over the years for crimpers and Vulkan lokring kit, so if I have the bulk of the tools and the abillity to do this, it would be silly for me not to. The idea is to repair them at weekends and in the evenings and see just how it goes.

I used to do a lot of car aircon but as more and more people bought the kit, then prices fell and I pulled the plug a couple of years ago, but this could well be a service that I could provide from my workshop at home.

[Karl Hofmann]

Hi Karl
we use these people for virtually all conectors and hoses.
www.pirtek.co.uk

Regards
Lrac

Thanks for that, I tried my local Pirtek a while ago and they said that they didn't do car air con pipes (Aluminium) but they did stock the reusable, screw in ends that you somtimes see on fridge vans and the like.

[dkemper]

Karl,

Here in the US, shops that can repair particularly older systems that don't have spares do very well.

There's also a fairly large market (here) for true custom work.

I lived in the UK for nearly 6 years, and had always wondered at the lack of such services there. I saw some truly beautiful cars that had suffered AC system failures that could not be repaired, or repaired cost effectively because of the lack of simple thinks like hoses and such.

I do hope you opt for offering such a service, and that you do well with it.

[Karl Hofmann]

Thanks for that.

Generally I find the older stuff is easier to work on as there is more room to work on them and much of the ac kit is based on stock components which if you know where to look are cheap and plentifull, those pipes are easy to sort. A far bigger headach are the aluminium alloy pipes on more modern vehicles as the pipes can be outrageously expensive. Audis for example use alloy nuts to fasten the pipes to the alloy accumulator, needless to say that after a compressor burn out the accumulator needs to be changed, unfortunately it is common for the alloy nuts to fuse themselves to the alloy threads and the threads are damaged when unscrewing, meaning that both pipes and the accumulator end up being replaced at no small price tag. I suspect that this will be quite a small but usefull venture, providing a good quality service to the motor trade, I have had a lot of positive feedback from my old customers and the guy who took over my customers when I "retired" from my automotive work two years ago.

Ha! Talking of custom work, I have the dubious honour of making and fitting air conditioning to a Triumph Dolomite Sprint this Summer, a car that was never designed to have air con... Oh what fun! Fortunately I have the ac compressor from a BL Mini still in the box somwhere in my workshop, should fit nicely

[dkemper]

Those Dolomite Sprints were such fun cars to drive! At least to my eyes they were not particularly hansom but open the bonnet and gaze at that twin cam engine stuffed into there and you have to grin!

Wanted in the worst way to put a Sprint's cyclinder head on my old Saab 99 (many people did not know they shared a common engine block). Never did find an intact exhaust manifold for the job. Would have made that Saab (another less than hansom car) a real tyre burner.

[Karl Hofmann]

Weren't they just little beasties! I had a couple when I was younger and I spent most of my time traveling backwards out of wet bends. The engine was actually designed for use by Saab but Saab rejected it so Triumph decided to stick the engine in the Triumph 1500 and so the Sprint was born. Originally it was to have around 160Bhp but one of the BL bigwigs scared the hell out of himself in one and so it was restricted to 127Bhp. The clever thing about it is that they designed it as a sixteen valve head but they were all driven off one camshaft. I still see a fair few of them at classic car shows and one of these days I know that I'm going to return home with one... But it has got to be the original yellow

[dkemper]

Karl,

I'd forgotten about the single cam trick BL pulled on that 16V head but yes, those were great little beasties that liked to run.

With the wild abandon I could throw my Saab into a round about, I still think adding that extra power could have only made it even more fun!

Ended up selling the Saab to a co-worker and bought an early (#3) Lotus Esprit. Even being years before the Esprit Turbo came out, it'd red line in 5th gear and do anything I asked of it. Man I loved driving in the UK! Great roads, really great cars much fun to be had.

[LRAC]

Hi Karl

iv'e got the car which bolted two sprint engines together and created a fine car from the 70's. The Triumph Stag all original and no lead filled panels, soon be time to bring it out with the T roof and enjoy(if it doesn't overheat )

Regards
Lrac

[Karl Hofmann]

You lucky sod, Stags are a really cool car but a modern alloy radiator and electric cooling fans help keep them cooler.

[LRAC]

You lucky sod, Stags are a really cool car but a modern alloy radiator and electric cooling fans help keep them cooler.

Hi Karl ive already fitted an electric cooling fan to the radiator and removed the points and replaced with electronic ignition system, next bank holiday ive got to check the shims in the overhead cams.

Converting to unleaded was abit of a nightmare but what the hell its a superb car.

Kind regards
Lrac

[coolincab]

Well guys, I know that there a fair few visitors from the car repair sector, so I hope that no one minds if I do a little market reserch

Most car air con components are available at very reasonable prices these days with the exception of hoses and pipes, generally speaking these are still only available from the main agent (Pug 306 and VX Vectra excepted) so I have decided to see if there is much call for the repair of damaged alloy and flexible ac pipes. My intention is to cut out damaged sections and braze in new pipe and either splice damaged flexis or replace the flexis together with new crimp ends.

So Guys, is there a decent sized market for this kind of service?

O me been repairing vehicle air con for 10 years & a lot of pipes usualy cutting out damaged section then useing lokring fittings to adapt to rubber hose feeding hose round engine cable ties to attach hose to origional pipe then cut & connect at other end saves hours on time for fitting not to mention ££.
Think brazeing the alloy pipe is as sucessfull as getting a car owner to pay to get air con fixed once you tell them its not just gas & whats actualy wrong

[Karl Hofmann]

Ha! yeah trying to get any car owner to pay for decent repairs can be tricky and as for the used car trade...

Replacing the alloy with burgaflex or the like is ok on stuff like Pajero rear aircon and vulkan on the original ends but this is pricey too. Had a lot of experience with Audis and BMWs where the pipe is damaged or stress fractured, I just had some problems with finding an alloy brazing rod that was easy enough to use and gave me consistant results, I found my rods in the US with the help from a pal who is a car ac specialist out there and I am really pleased with the results. I now have a load of ends, fittings and crimps from Vulkan and have been trudging round all the car aircon guys, garages and used car dealers in my area reminding them that I am still alive.

The Vulkan crimps are great when the pipe is done in situ but feel that brazing is better if the pipe is off the car

[monkey spanners]

Hi Lrac
Would the cylinderheads and turbo off a Saab Carlson fit? Twin turbo V8 stag.......

Jon

[Karl Hofmann]

Hi Lrac
Would the cylinderheads and turbo off a Saab Carlson fit? Twin turbo V8 stag.......

Jon

Noooooo Monkey, Noooooo

The pleasure of a Stag is that it is a laid back cruiser with a beautiful voice... You want to go fast then buy a Haveabashie Knackercrackie with active driver control


And I don't believe that the heads will fit as to get them phisically fit on to the block one head would have the drive for the cam at the rear of the engine or the exhaust manifold in the centre of the Vee

[monkey spanners]

Hi Karl

Yeah i know really, but its fun to plan these things even with no intention of doing them.
When i had my classsic truck (12L cummins straight six) i found a company in the states that could turn its 220 hp at the crank into over 1000hp at the wheels only trouble was the 20k it would cost to do it. oh and someone stole my truck

Jon

[Gerardo05]

Well guys, I know that there a fair few visitors from the car repair sector, so I hope that no one minds if I do a little market reserch

Most car air con components are available at very reasonable prices these days with the exception of hoses and pipes, generally speaking these are still only available from the main agent (Pug 306 and VX Vectra excepted) so I have decided to see if there is much call for the repair of damaged alloy and flexible ac pipes. My intention is to cut out damaged sections and braze in new pipe and either splice damaged flexis or replace the flexis together with new crimp ends.

So Guys, is there a decent sized market for this kind of service?

First of all, you should always clean the upholstery before starting any repair projects. Use an upholstery cleaner that is made specifically for the type of upholstery you have and always follow the manufacturers instructions to the letter.

[xamtex]

forgive me for my ignorance...but how the hell do you braze aluminiun pipe??

[Karl Hofmann]

Carefully!......

There are aluminium brazing rods available, the best that I have used were supplied to me by southern sales in southampton, they are the importer for a US made brazing rod...

[xamtex]

ive been offering a pipe and hose repair service for 3 years now...using the lokring stuff...accessability is the main problem...if you need to remove the whole pipe to do the repair it can be very time consuming.
i have never had a lokring connector fail yet...would you not need as much space to cut and braze a pipe as to do a lokring repair??

[abbsnowman]

If lines are steel we use whats called a "life saver." Its a fitting that you braze on and use Aeroquip hose. Very simple. If they are aluminum, we have to tig them. Gets expensive. As a rule, I don't allow automotive in my shop. I fnd that we really are not set up for it and people don't want to spend the kind of money it takes to do job right.

[xamtex]

its not so much about doing the job right...for example to change some pipes on a ford galaxy means removing the engine and gearbox first....if i can cut out a damaged section and repair it saves a lot of time and effort?if you quoted a customer to drop the engine and box to change a pipe i guess most owners would not bother.
its sometimes a cheap repair to buy a new pipe from ford and cut out the bit you need and graft it in with lokrings.
you tell a guy with an old galaxy its gonna cost him a grand to get his a/c fixed he will just leave the windows open...if you tell him you can fix it for a couple of hundred he may have it fixed???

[tbirdtbird]

Karl, care to toss us the name of the US made Al brazing rod that you like?

[coolincab]

yep i want to know too

[Karl Hofmann]

The rods that I use are from Omni Technologies, Brentwood, NH03833 In the USA but they are imported to the UK by

Southern Sales & Services Ltd.
Sterling House,
Mayflower Close,
Chandlers Ford Industrial Est,
Southampton,
Hampshire,
SO53 4AR

Tel 023 80261188
Fax 023 80254054
Email jules@southernsales.co.uk

Nicest ally brazing rods I have ever used... Hope that this helps