RDM Products

[BenService]

Does anyone else use the RDM range of products? Case controllers and front end systems? They are currently the systems of choice for M&S and Somerfield i believe.

If so what are your opinions about them? Do you find them user friendly?
What common problems do you encounter with them?

[rbartlett]

Done a v.small amount on a few M&S -thought they were pretty good and quite reliable. However the compressor mounted ones are prone to vibrational problems..I believe I have some manuals around.

However there are far better informed guy's here for sure ;-)

Cheers

Richard

[Andy]

Does anyone else use the RDM range of products? Case controllers and front end systems? They are currently the systems of choice for M&S and Somerfield i believe.

If so what are your opinions about them? Do you find them user friendly?
What common problems do you encounter with them?

Hmmm RDM,
sorry to say I don't like them. A bit plastic in appearance, really Elm in a new box. With the EEV's they use probes for the evaporation not a transducer, a cheap way to get an evaporator referance, but not as good or relyable as a transducer.
A cheap alternative to Danfoss, easier to set up and with a front end that is more user friendly than Danfoss.
They come in power trays that, you just pull out the plugs and plug in the new one, just set the dip switches and defrosts and away you go.

Better than TEV's but not as good as Danfoss.
Still they do not do the same job technically as Danfoss or save as much energy, a cheap mans Danfoss.

We have been fitting them, but only on certain stores, not our top end brands

Kind Regards Andy

PS all the manuals are freely available from their site on the net.

[bernard]

Hi


Our M&S,s have recently changed from elm to R.D.M.I think they have the best call centre by far,The front end is very user friendly.

I,ve had problems with vibration on the packs and found changing the scroll compressor rubber mounts from soft to hard and fit the correct spacers cures the problems.

The biggest problem is the cases,I can,t remember the manufacture,they have PT 1000 probes which are the best on the market but for some strange reason they decided to put 4 connections between the probe and the controller.

I,ve not had much to do the the new case controllers and don,t normally look into these things in advance,I think you learn better a 3 am under a bit of pressure.


Regards Bernard

[bernard]

Hmmm RDM,
sorry to say I don't like them. A bit plastic in appearance, really Elm in a new box. With the EEV's they use probes for the evaporation not a transducer, a cheap way to get an evaporator referance, but not as good or relyable as a transducer.
A cheap alternative to Danfoss, easier to set up and with a front end that is more user friendly than Danfoss.
They come in power trays that, you just pull out the plugs and plug in the new one, just set the dip switches and defrosts and away you go.

Better than TEV's but not as good as Danfoss.
Still they do not do the same job technically as Danfoss or save as much energy, a cheap mans Danfoss.

We have been fitting them, but only on certain stores, not our top end brands

Kind Regards Andy

PS all the manuals are freely available from their site on the net.

Hi Andy

I,m interested in what youv,e said ref eev,s and tev,s the reason being 99% of the supermarkets I look after are on eev,s and have a lot of problems with a large ice build up at the back of the evap on freezers.The cases with tev,s hardly require de-icing.The eev,s evap probes fail quite regular.As well as the armatures jamming open on the screw pack freezers.I find flood back is also more common on eev cases.Maybe its the quality and accuracy of the probes.I always thought if they fitted tev,s they would have less problems.I,ve never seen tranducers used on cases only on packs.


Kind Regards Bernard

[Andy]

Hi Andy

I,m interested in what youv,e said ref eev,s and tev,s the reason being 99% of the supermarkets I look after are on eev,s and have a lot of problems with a large ice build up at the back of the evap on freezers.The cases with tev,s hardly require de-icing.The eev,s evap probes fail quite regular.As well as the armatures jamming open on the screw pack freezers.I find flood back is also more common on eev cases.Maybe its the quality and accuracy of the probes.I always thought if they fitted tev,s they would have less problems.I,ve never seen tranducers used on cases only on packs.


Kind Regards Bernard

Hi Bernard

At a guess the evaporator probes are wrongly located. If you fit a set of gauges on the shrider connection on the case, the probe should read exactly that, if it doesn't then the controller needs to be offsett or the probe moved (the probe must be in the coldest point on the coil).
By fitting transducers this problem doesnot occur, hence the danfoss system does not freeze up like that.

I have seen one case where a large cold store cooler has broken all the fan blades, the Danfoss EEV's kept running, away down at 3 and 5 %, the cooler did not freeze up and no liquid carry over occured.

If you mention EEV's people think they are all the same, the probe type will work, but the probe must be located at the coldest point and probably offset after this. You can sometimes do all this and still find the refrerance temperature wanders, purely by the fact that 400 series refrigerant has a glide and you simply don't know what part of the mixture is evaporating at the probe, this will vary with evaporator loading.

Transducers are the way to go, we usually fit one per case controller, one or two section, but one transducer will do a row of cabinets, if fitted to the main header and you will notice little differance to a transducer per case.

If you are fitting RDM, they will tell you use the Danfoss probes, they have a better life cycle.

Hope this helps,

Kind Regards Andy

[chillin out]

Hi


Our M&S,s have recently changed from elm to R.D.M.I think they have the best call centre by far,The front end is very user friendly.

LOL.. are we talking about the same people?

I have only ever phoned them twice and on both times I felt I had woken the guy up out of a deep sleep. And even then he wasn't much help.

Chillin

[chillin out]

And thats another thing.. what happens when the front end fails..?

RDM say you have to send it back to them!!!!!!
How can a supermarket go through a day let alone a week without an alarm panel????

We had RDM go round and update the front ends and he f^&cked them all up. Another guy had to go round and fix them all.

Chillin

[bernard]

LOL.. are we talking about the same people?

I have only ever phoned them twice and on both times I felt I had woken the guy up out of a deep sleep. And even then he wasn't much help.

Chillin

They answered the phone didn,t they,thats a good call centre in my book. .It was a chap from wales that did our new systems,he obviously practised on your ones first. Trying working with parasence they go home at 5pm and switch the phones off


Regards Bernard

[donhoban]

Hmmm RDM,
sorry to say I don't like them. A bit plastic in appearance, really Elm in a new box. With the EEV's they use probes for the evaporation not a transducer, a cheap way to get an evaporator referance, but not as good or relyable as a transducer.
A cheap alternative to Danfoss, easier to set up and with a front end that is more user friendly than Danfoss.

Better than TEV's but not as good as Danfoss.
Still they do not do the same job technically as Danfoss or save as much energy, a cheap mans Danfoss.
.

Tend to agree with you there.

But my real objection to RDM is that they sell direct to end users, so while they want me to promote their product now, when it's established (say with a chain) I'll be cut out. No thanks.

[bernard]

Yes tranducers is the way ahead,However I,ve not seen them fitted on any supermarket cases.Rdm are fitting PT1000 probes which are bullet proof.RMS will also be using these probes with there new controllers.

I not surprised they resemble elm as its the same software engineers that designed it.Elm now comes under trend who are both owned by honeywell.I find both trend and elm have a couldn,t care less attitude when speaking to them.However I do like elm products.

Regards Bernard

[BenService]

I myself deal with RDM on a daily basis and have experienced a lot of the problems others have mentioned. If you ring the technical help 90% of the time you'll get through to Norman or Dal or Cal cant remember his name, Normans ok but the other bloke can be a bit obtuse and make you feel like it's your fault for the break down.
No support after 5ish, i've left over five stores for longer than 48 hours with no alarm cover for their fridges, because A: you cant get hold of anyone after 5 and so that means another visit the next day to confirm that the rdm data manager has failed (very common problem), and B: because you have to wait for rdm to issue you a returns number, and if they dont think that its the equipment gone wrong due to technical failure you then have to order the equipment at your own cost and return the old one to get a refund.

[bernard]

Hi

This does not sound good at all,we can only comment on the experiences we,ve had.I will be very peed off it this happens to me.

Regard Bernard

[arcticmonkey]

just today 15/9 i had to ring their tech desk due a pack controller in a somerfield petrol station.it`s only been open 9 months and already had 2 pack controllers and i had to order another today because the last one locked up.same old sh#te.i agree though,it did sound like i woke the bloke up and it was only 9 am.

[arcticmonkey]

i do hope no-one from rdm is looking at this.if you are can i please have my controller before christmas?

[Andy]

Hi Guys

why even bother with all this hassle, fit danfoss I keep an AKC 114 and 115 in the van, an EKC 414 and a gateway. The only time I take them out off the van is if we are short one on an install

About a year ago I did replace one AKC115 that failed after 6 years, and two dead on arrival 114,s.
Three controllers in one year and I am the only one that carries an AKC 115 in the van, with none in the stores.

Me I don't work on plant if it hasn't Danfoss fitted I get by quite nicely without the hassle.

Kind Regards Andy

[BenService]

Danfoss kit is quite nice, i've had limited use of it but seems to be reliable, i'd say every tesco store i've been on use it. Going back to the rdm pack controllers, a site i visited was using them in a 2 searle packs, the hp transducer had failed and had been on backup for a while, but then the backup transducer failed, so another firm who attended the call nicked the spare backup transducer off the other pack, low and behold both packs are running on back up. replacement parts where ordered by the other company, apparently 3 weeks wait?? anyway, the rdm controllers can be configured for other types of trancducers or so the documentation says, so i get into the setup menu go to the appropriate parameters enter the tranducer offset, range and something else, do you think it would run? no chance, even in the documentation they quote incorrect figures for the danfoss tranducer they use. if you've got all day, empty fridges on the shop floor and dont mind the frequent no remote monitoring due to system failure, RDM's products are for you!

[Andy Riddell]

There is no denying that danfoss controllers are a good controller but talk about a useless shortform and hidden settings,for instance on the 414 if you don't set up the start defrost after power drop every controller will go on defrost at the one time.They also have no built in timer so you can have them as stand alone but the defrost set up is a bit basic.I commissioned the first 414 sites in scotland and trying to get info on them was a nightmare they also can only go IP and not RS485.So in general every manufacturer has it's good and bad,I've found that most complaints are actually due to engineers lack of knowledge and incompetence.

[chillin out]

I like Danfoss as well, but I don't understand why they put some parameters in them that you would never ever need to set that way.
Also, when they fail, they seem to set themselves to the most daftest settings.

Chillin

[fowlie]

if you think rdm are poor wait until you have problems with the carel case controllers that sainsburys are using,one shop under two years old has had loads of controller fails,yet the thousands of danfoss controllers in tescos run with never any problems

[coolhibby1875]

its amazing to read all the different engineers veiws on controllers i agree that danfoss is very reliable however they are not very user friendly at all and you need a degree in quantum physics to even adjust a parameter never mind commission a whole store however getting back to the issue raised rdm make the best pound for pound controller on the market and iff your working on the m and s contract just phone oaksmere and they will dial in and do any adjustments for you

[careluk]

Dear Fowlie

Please I would really appreciate whether you can tell me the sort of problems you have been experiencing with Carel controls.
Obviously any comments will help us to take any action if necessary.

Meantime should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us at careluk@careluk.co.uk

Looking forward to hearing from you

Thanks

Carel UK Aftersales

if you think rdm are poor wait until you have problems with the carel case controllers that sainsburys are using,one shop under two years old has had loads of controller fails,yet the thousands of danfoss controllers in tescos run with never any problems

[chillled]

talking of carel controllers, has anyone got a set of parameters for an ir33 controller as used in sainsburys rather than the 92 page tome on the website in several languages. would be appriciated!
Cheers
jon

[careluk]

Please provide your full email address a PDF file be enlcosed.

Regards

Carel Uk after sales

talking of carel controllers, has anyone got a set of parameters for an ir33 controller as used in sainsburys rather than the 92 page tome on the website in several languages. would be appriciated!
Cheers
jon

[nike123]

Please provide your full email address a PDF file be enlcosed.

Regards

Carel Uk after sales

Hi, Carel UK!
I am glad that someone from great company as Carel is with us.
In short time, I will post some questions for you!