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  1. #1
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    XRV204-110 Major overhaul video



    So...

    the last 3 weeks I have done major overhaul on an XRV163-165, XRV204-165 and a XRV204-110.


    I just started on the second XRV204-110, snagged a go pro camera from out PR guy and made some video of the disassembly.
    Can be seen here:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaTAfJLThmA

    I'm going to start putting humpty dumpty back together tomorrow and I'll try to make a video of the full assembly if anyone is interested.



    The 110 is kinda interesting, because it is so short it's the only XRV204 where you can pull the slidevalve out through the front of the compressor.

    There is a special tool you can fit through the discharge port to keep it from sliding to far forward (can be seen in the video at 1:55).

    So if you find yourself replacing an actuator piston seal on an XRV204-110, first make sure to set the manual Vi spindle ALL THE WAY clockwise, this will release the pressure on the spring so it won't push the slidevalve all the way out.

    Also take care when pulling the actuator piston out, make sure it doesn't snag on the threads on the center bolt and you inadvertently pull the valve to far.

    Like I mentioned, there is a special tool, but who want's to disconnect the coupling, suction flange, discharge flange and all the oil lines just to replace an actuator piston seal right

    as long as you are careful and not pull it to far forward, it will stay in place.

    I have had a colleague find himself in the unfortunate situation where he pulled it to far out and the whole slidevalve fell down into the discharge chamber.

    It is possible to get it back in without taking the compressor apart, but it took me around 2 hours elbow deep in the actuator piston housing before I got it back in position... so it is possible, but it is absolutely not something I want to do again


    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Video showing the tool in place, and what can happen if the tool is not in place

    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Shared the video other places and a recurring question was

    What is this:
    skruer.jpg

    What this is, is a piece of teflon plate where I have drilled holes where I can put compressor bolts

    The XRV comes with same threads, but different lengths...

    Before I would just lump them all into a box and that was it...

    Until assembly when I had to make sure I picked out the correct length bolt.

    So I took a plate and drilled a 4 by 5 grid, then 1 4 and one 3.

    So when dismantling an XRV
    The first five are for the male thrust cover, second five female thrust cover, third is male non thrust (shaft seal cover), fourth is Female drive end, fifth is spare, sixth is actuator piston cover, seventh is manual Vi cover

    bolt lagring.jpg
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    keep posting Tycho, youve usually got something interesting, useful or funny.
    Interested to hear about opportunities to learn. - http://www.linkedin.com/in/s34nf

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by seanf View Post
    keep posting Tycho, youve usually got something interesting, useful or funny.
    I will second that Seanf

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Video is still processing on youtube, hopefully be available shortly.

    Final disassembly and assembly up until preloading Male rotor disc spring and tightening retaining nut


    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    final part of the assembly



    Like and follow?

    Maybe I'll post more :P
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    An air of care. (thumbs up emoji thing)
    Interested to hear about opportunities to learn. - http://www.linkedin.com/in/s34nf

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Tycho,
    I see comments on other sites about your video.
    Everyone does things a bit different, as long as it works, who cares.
    I have difficulty wearing gloves when doing this work, hopefully mineral oil will not kill me, anyway to late to worry.
    Keep up the good work.
    If its going on International space station use Mycom��

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Whats the secret end clearance adjustment method?
    Interested to hear about opportunities to learn. - http://www.linkedin.com/in/s34nf

  11. #11
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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    No secret, machine thrust bearing cover to adjust.

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    I take it Howdens way of doing the adjustment is to sell you another cover?
    Last edited by seanf; 25-03-2023 at 05:36 PM.
    Interested to hear about opportunities to learn. - http://www.linkedin.com/in/s34nf

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Seanf,
    Cover would be cost of new machine.
    If all bearings seated & everything detailed, like high spots on rotor end faces, discharge end face, clearance should be correct as it was from factory.
    If correction required, precision lathe work on cover carried out.
    Must be perfectly parallel to each other.
    Face machined depends on if clearance to big or small.

    All these machines are about cleaning & detail for reliable operation.
    Also check & double check everything ( Tycho indicates this in video).
    If checks not carried out it goes pear shaped pretty quickly.

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Always a bit disappointing opening parts boxes to find its not made of solid gold, some daft prices.

    Nice to see someone caring about what they do. Just wondered if there was some knowledge to steal from Tycho with his adjustment method, but I guess hes just on about machining or shimming.
    Interested to hear about opportunities to learn. - http://www.linkedin.com/in/s34nf

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Did you take note of the store he got his parts from $$$$.

    Mycom best value for money, compressor & parts reasonable pricing, lots of easy to get manuals, very reliable.

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by RANGER1 View Post
    Tycho,
    I see comments on other sites about your video.
    Everyone does things a bit different, as long as it works, who cares.
    I have difficulty wearing gloves when doing this work, hopefully mineral oil will not kill me, anyway to late to worry.
    Keep up the good work.
    If its going on International space station use Mycom��
    Thanks you know I never shy away from a good argument

    The wearing gloves constantly was a two part learning experience that I still remember because of the senior technicians response to my snide remark.

    First time:
    me, apprentice, with a senior engineer, we were lifting a refrigerant pump (90kg/200lbs) out of it's mounts.
    he was all cramped in there behind the pump to do the heaviest lift, and I were on the outside just having to move the pump and let it down on the floor.

    I were getting ready, and
    -he said "put your gloves on first"
    -I said "Gloves won't make the pump weigh any less"
    -He said "it makes the man stronger! Now put on your gloves!"

    And in the 26 years since then, whenever lifting anything, I remember that comment, because that extra protection of the gloves makes lifting anything hurt less.

    second time:
    I were 18 or 19 still an apprentice, he was 40 or the age I am now and he told me to drive the alignment pins back into place on the cover of a WRV compressor, so I grabbed the transfer punch and went to town pounding it back into place. Did the first one, then as I were getting ready to do the second one he said
    -Him: "you should really put your gloves on when you do that"
    -Me: "why? they are only in the way"
    -Him: "ok, you can do it without gloves and I'll tell you why when you are done"

    So I drove in the pin on the male rotor side, and on that side for us right handed people, we can hold the transfer punch with our left and use the hammer with our right hand

    Then I moved to the female side, so now I had to hold the transfer punch with my left, but I had to cross my arms to use my right hand with the hammer.

    This guy was just standing there watching.

    After a few taps, I missed the transfer punch and landed a full on power blow with the hammer, perfectly on the thumb joint.

    My initial reaction was "HNNNNNNGGGGGGGG Mother!!! er!!!!"

    And this guy standing next to me who had watched the entire thing said
    Him: "and that's why we wear gloves"


    This was back in 1999, the gloves we could get were the "general purpose" like these ones:
    Screenshot_192.jpg

    After a while, the company I worked for mergered with a production company, and they had TIG welding gloves for their production welders, and the tig gloves were better fitting and were very good for mechanical work, but they had the long sleeve. so we would steal them, and cut of the sleeves so we could use them for mechanical work

    Screenshot_193.jpg
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by RANGER1 View Post
    Tycho,
    I see comments on other sites about your video.
    Everyone does things a bit different, as long as it works, who cares.
    I have difficulty wearing gloves when doing this work, hopefully mineral oil will not kill me, anyway to late to worry.
    Keep up the good work.
    If its going on International space station use Mycom��
    When I were in Oman for 8 months on a project with several different Service and Comissioning engineers from Howden, I tried picking their brain about the XRV compressor.

    they said "hang on... are you servicing the XRV compressors? I thought they were 'use and discard' compressors, as in let them run until they no longer work, and then replace them"

    Kind of how I advised clients about the Bitzer OSK and OSKA, it costs more to service the compressor than to replace it wit a brand new one.
    Keep an eye on the suction cover, if it's iced over , it's good... the ice will move back towards the suction valve as the compressor gets worn out, so when you start noticing the ice on the suction receding, start planning to replace the compressor
    Attachment 16223

    And this is how the Howden Field commissioning and Field Mechanical engineers viewed the XRV

    One of them actually contacted me when we was on site in Israel on some plant and asked "I'm at a plant that has had several XRV compressors break downs,nobody knows why, what are your thoughts"

    We had some back and forth and then he mentioned that "from time to time the compressor sounded like a bandsaw in distress", and that immediately told me that the compressor was having a wet suction, I told him my suspicion and never heard back

    The WRV and XRV both will make a band saw/circular saw high pitched *REEEEEEEEE* sound if they have wet suction, but for some reason the XRV this sound is much much more pronounced than in the WRV.


    In any case if you start hearing a *rrrrreeeeEEEEEEEE* sound in a Howden compressor, hit the E-Stop, or start another refrigerant pump, because that compressor is slurping liquid drops

    The sound, I have been told isn't from the compressor itself, but from the liquid drops that are pulled into the compression and explode with exceptional force... I have overhauled compressors that have had wet suction, the rotors look like they have been through puberty, but as long as you smoth them down and mesh them, they are good to go.

    Like I said, Howden has said that the XRV weren't meant to be serviced, and that only Refrigeration companies service them, because a new XRV204-165 costs now around $35.000, and the lead time for a replacement is I think 8 - 12 months

    When my boss asks me "how many hours to service an XRV163 or 204?"
    I ask back, for fixed price or for by the hour?

    This is something I don't get really, the fixed price.
    The client will ask "so this compressor overhaul, can you give me a price estimate?"
    We'll give back "sure, overhaul of a compressor of this type will come to 100.000,- amount in parts and 100.000,- in labour, so total for the job will be around 200.000,-

    Client: can you give me a fixed price on that job?
    My boss:sure, you can get a fixed price
    Client: and that price is?
    My boss: the fixed price is 350.000,-
    Client: that sounds good, I'll take that

    the fixed price includes the parts and estimated time in the original job that they were quoted 200.000,- for, but they would have to pay extra for the TIME I would spend if there was anything unforeseen.

    So the degassing vacuuming and removing the compressor from the ship, all that is by the hour.

    once I have it up on the "butcher's bench" as I call it, that's when the fixed price comes into count. if everything goes by the book, I can have it pulled apart and reassembled in 13-16 hours, but if there are something that needs special care, then that is on us and the fixed price

    So the customer just gambled, "Ok, I'll pay double price and then some, and you'll do the job in the same amount of time as if I paid by the hour"

    my boss said: "Ok"

    Normally I say 1 normal working day to disassemble (7.5 hours), and 1 working day (7.5 hours) to assemble an XRV compressor.

    the video I posted I used 19 hours, mostly because it weren't time sensitive, I were playing with the camera and I had a school student in training that I had to do a lot of the easy stuff to show him that in "industrial refrigeration" you have to be comfortable with being a mechanic wielding large wrenches and had him pull all the torque on the larger bolts on the compressor except the "time to do some shady sh*it" ones"
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by RANGER1 View Post
    No secret, machine thrust bearing cover to adjust.
    Oh there's a secret...

    We have a lathe in the workshop, and my way to becoming a refrigeration mechanic, I started as a mechanic and went to mechanical school and were trained in all kinds of tools of the trade, including the Lathe... where I excelled.

    Learned how to do basic alignments on the lathe, and to do pretty advanced things on the lathe.
    Our teacher assigned me to the one lathe that had a digital readout, so I could do stuff down to 0.001...


    During the school year, he would give us drawings of things to make, to show our proficiency.

    But the best part were when some old pensioner guy came in with a dohickey he needed made.
    These were WW2 veterans that had retired and had a small wooden boat that they would take waaaaaaay out into the North Sea were all the big factory trawlers were working.
    They had semi diesel engines and were like this

    The one in the video is a larger boat that would have a crew of maybe 4-5.

    For the old local guys, picture WW2 vets that had a small boat with an semi diesel engine on a boat for one or two people, where they would go out at 4 in the morning and go out into the middle of the North sea to where the large trawlers were working.

    They'd "tok tok tok" out at 4 in the morning, and then come back at 4-7 in the evening with their catch...

    and they'd come up to us at the school if they needed something machined, and our teacher would come to us and say "quit what you are doing and make this instead"

    So that taught me a lot about machining.

    Today, the refrigeration education is based on electrical, so they have no mechanical education. pluss the last year they have reduced the amount of hours of refrigeration and added ventilation.

    The education used to be called "refrigeration engineer" when I took it... then 14 years later, when Air-air split units became famous on the market in 2005 or thereabouts, the education changed name from "refrigeration engineer" to "Refrigeration and air condition installer"

    it get's worse...

    a few years later a few years later, the industry association (the ones that connect the industry to the government) were taken over by contractors that work on large commercial buildings and residential buildings, so now the education has changed names again, and is now "Refrigeration and ventilation", and the refrigeration part has been cut by 50% so they can learn more about balanced ventilation.
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by seanf View Post
    Whats the secret end clearance adjustment method?
    Quote Originally Posted by RANGER1 View Post
    No secret, machine thrust bearing cover to adjust.


    very very secret

    it involves a drill press, several magnets, a flat surface and a large piece of emery paper with 240 grit

    We have a Lathe, and I see myself as some kind of a master Lather... but it would take me sooooo much time to center and level the Thrust bearing cover in the lathe, and then the wonky lathe, as soon as the bit engaged the goods it would probably dig in and go *nyon* and take 1mm out where I only want6ed 0.001mm

    If you watched the videos, in one of them you can see me funbling a little bit with a ring on the female bearing.

    I have noticed on some overhauls that this ring looks like it has been through a "grinder" at howden, probably a planer.

    I don't have one, so I use magnets to hold the ring and then I use a drill press to press that ring down onto emery paper on a flat surface.

    I could have put shims between the thrust bearing cover and the body, but that is such a last resort that it makes me gag just thinking about it.
    Last edited by Tycho; 31-03-2023 at 12:48 AM.
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by RANGER1 View Post
    Seanf,
    Cover would be cost of new machine.
    If all bearings seated & everything detailed, like high spots on rotor end faces, discharge end face, clearance should be correct as it was from factory.
    If correction required, precision lathe work on cover carried out.
    Must be perfectly parallel to each other.
    Face machined depends on if clearance to big or small.

    All these machines are about cleaning & detail for reliable operation.
    Also check & double check everything ( Tycho indicates this in video).
    If checks not carried out it goes pear shaped pretty quickly.
    That machine I made the video with, I tried with covers from another machine that some one else had deemed "unservicble" and the outlet end clearance was the exact same... that's why I have moved to polishing that ring on the thrust bearing assembly rather than trying ti put the cover in the late
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by RANGER1 View Post
    All these machines are about cleaning & detail for reliable operation.
    Also check & double check everything ( Tycho indicates this in video).
    If checks not carried out it goes pear shaped pretty quickly.
    The XRV's are stonecrushers, they will grind through rock and suck liquid refrigerant and sound like they enjoy it, but it will scare the bejeebus out of any refrigeration mechanic standing next to them.

    Especially the ones that run on VFD. My preference is that no XRV should run lower than 2400 rpm.

    I have had a few commissions where the compressor were to be run at 1200 rpm.
    IMHO at 1200 rpm even the XRV compressor is an oil pump an not a compressor.

    Anyway, we started the plant, the compressor sounded nice (for pumping oil)
    after the warmup time the slidevalve stared increasing
    all was good until it reached 25% and the compressor sounded like it was chewing itself to pieces *GRRRRR" but then it increased to 30% and it was all quiet again.

    So I learned "don't be alarmed if an XRV makes a sound like it's chewing itself to pieces"
    it's just the slidevalve finding it's place ;D

    or most important, act cool and don't let the owner/client see that you are nervous if the compressor is making sounds you are not comfortable with

    Just look at the client and smile and say "this is good stuff" while you ever so slightly move your hand towards the emergency stop button, and inside you hope that the PLC guy has added all the correct limits.... then the slidevalve moves from 25% to 30% and it goes from sounding like it is going to shake itself to pieces to sounding like a purring kitten, and you are still looking at the client, and the shakily lowering your arm from near the emergency stop that's the life of commissioning an XRV, 1800 rpm no less, they can run at 1200, but not recommended
    Last edited by Tycho; 31-03-2023 at 01:19 AM.
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    also, when I check Outlet end clerance, take into account that when I check female first, the male rotor is locked so I might be pushing against the Male rotor as well when I check the OEC. As can be seen in the video I got an OEC of the female that was 0.13, but when I checked it again when I released the pressure it was closer to 0.15
    That is Why I check the OEC several times.
    First push: Female rotor
    second push:male rotor
    Then I rotate to make sure they are free, then release pressure on female to check how much it gives, to make sure it's the same as before... hopefully no more or less...
    then I do the same thing for the male rotor...


    I've seen some nasty looking XRV compressors, but I've only seen one I didn't service
    As long as he hasn't chewed into the outlet wall, it can be serviced!
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Crazy man
    Interested to hear about opportunities to learn. - http://www.linkedin.com/in/s34nf

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by seanf View Post
    Crazy man
    you have to be a bit crazy to keep doing this job
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Very true



    .
    Interested to hear about opportunities to learn. - http://www.linkedin.com/in/s34nf

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    [QUOTE=seanf;334623]Very true

    in deed ;D
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    So...

    I have 5 more XRV major overhauls coming up, 2 x 204 and 3 x 163.

    I'm going to video most of it, so if there are specific parts you want me to focus on, let me know
    Last edited by Tycho; 08-04-2023 at 05:21 PM.
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Hello Tycho,

    what to say ... thanks for your time and effort to share all this with us.

    My guys and me did it on XRV 204 (back in 2014.) with home made tools
    still in my possession, but today relaxing on the shelf and probably will be
    never ever used again (original Howden tools were and are too expensive).

    Usually working within engine room with compressor on base frame
    (electric motor shifted to be able to remove rotors) with other compressors
    running, wearing ear protection, but that was in my time what is now behind me ....

    Agree with you ... job must be done by the book.


    Best regards, Josip

    It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious...

    Don't ever underestimate the power of stupid people when they are in large groups.

    Please, don't teach me how to be stupid....
    No job is as important as to jeopardize the safety of you or those that you work with.

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    Re: XRV204-110 Major overhaul video

    Quote Originally Posted by Josip View Post
    Hello Tycho,

    what to say ... thanks for your time and effort to share all this with us.

    My guys and me did it on XRV 204 (back in 2014.) with home made tools
    still in my possession, but today relaxing on the shelf and probably will be
    never ever used again (original Howden tools were and are too expensive).

    Usually working within engine room with compressor on base frame
    (electric motor shifted to be able to remove rotors) with other compressors
    running, wearing ear protection, but that was in my time what is now behind me ....

    Agree with you ... job must be done by the book.


    Best regards, Josip
    Josip, truer words have never been spoken than when you said "original howden tools are to expensive"!

    I have to add that the original Howden tools are not very durable! especially for the WRV range.

    some time between 2010 and 2016, not sure when, because I weren't consulted, the company I work for purchased special tools for the WRV range from someone, and they were EXPENSIVE!

    The tools that arrived were all hand made and looked like something that had been made in someones garage.

    Like the larger Keys for the SKF nuts on the older WRV Compressors, and they had replaceable teeth.

    The key was made out of soft steel and the four teeth were from hard steel and were attached to the soft steel with m5 countersunk bolts inside a groove, and the tool came with 4 hardened steel teeth fitted and with 8 more in a Ziploc bag.

    but the hard steel teeth looked like someone had ground them by hand on a grinding wheel, and did not look like a precision tool... and probably when they were grinding them they had overheated them, so they snapped like a candy cane before we were nowhere near the torque required.

    So for those older compressors I am still using a key that were Cut out by hand by some guy in 1960-70 by hand, using an acetylene/oxygen cutting torch and then filing the teeth in by hand

    The XRV204 tools I have is from Howden, and it does it's job.

    For the XRV163, the company had all the original tools, but it was lost when they disbanded a satellite office, as in someone has it in his garage, or took it with him to his new place of work.

    But when I came back to MMC, we had a wrecked XRV163, and all you need to make the special tools is 2 thrust bearing covers, a thrust bearing casing, a welding machine and a lathe.

    So for the XRV163 all the tools are home made.


    The only crucial tool for any XRV 163 - 204 really is the spring compression tool, and you don't really need a "tool" for it, you can use the thrust bearing cover and a piece of pipe that has the same OD as the thrust bearings really.


    I mean, it's nice to have all the tools lined up, but the only "special tool" you need to service an XRV or WRV is a dial gauge
    -Cheers-

    Tycho

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