Unisab II Electronic board problems

[gycoo]

Hi guys,

Great and helpful forum.

I have a Sabroe Unisab II Sab 202 LF and from a week or so, the screen doesn't come on.

The reset LEDs from the electronic board is flashing and it doesn't boot up. The screen has a line blinking - like it's in a loop of booting up.

Because I have another identical machine, I switched the CPU board and the display+keyboard (the front cover) and found that both are fine. So I'm guessing that the piggy back board / relay board is broken.

Do you have any idea if the board is repairable, could it be the relays?

Any help will be welcomed.

Thanks a bunch!

Have a nice day!

[AKI]

Gycoo the problem you have is on the main relay board.
You must changed this , its not possible to repair.

AKI

[gycoo]

Hi Aki,

Thnaks for your reply.
I was hoping an electronic expert can have a look and maybe repair the board as it appears that the problem is on the supply line.

Also, do you guys have an electrical drawing for the wiring of the relay board? Someone labeled the wires before taken the board out but I think he didn't do it correctly.

Cheers

[gycoo]

Update on wiring:

I have a wrong reading of oil Temperature, it stays on 200 degrees and the compressor is stopped from a week. can you help with the terminals for the Oil temperature sensor are (PT100 probably)?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers

[mbc]

Hi
For oil protection CIRCUIT
PT 100 INPUT N0.3
21-22-23-24

21-----------23
22-------------24


@ 0c pt 100 value between 23 & 24 is 63 mVDC

[mbc]

Hi
Send me your WhatsApp No.
I send the copy of that .

Mail your WhatsApp no.
My mail is
Gholbehan@yahoo.com

[Tycho]

Unisab II instruction manual
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19MO...ew?usp=sharing

Unisab II electrical diagram
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qxg...ew?usp=sharing

[gycoo]

Guys, thanks a lot for your help.

I'll get there tomorrow, test it out and get back.

Have a nice day!

Cheers

[gycoo]

Hey guys,

So, I measured the signals from the PT100 and it seems the probe is fine. It seems the input in the relay board is faulty. I don't know if this is repairable, I'm guessing not. I think need a new/refurbished relay board.

Again, thank you for your support, a great forum.

Keep up the good work

Cheers

[AKI]

Hi gycoo,
you can see my first answer , YOU MUST CHANGE RELAY BOARD.

best regards
AKI

[AKI]

Hi gycoo send mi your Viber or WhatsApp no.

[gycoo]

Hi Aki,

I sent you an email, as I cannot send PM (dunno why).

Cheers

[frank]

Hi Aki,

I sent you an email, as I cannot send PM (dunno why).

Cheers

You need a minimum post count of 10 before you can send PM's

[gycoo]

You need a minimum post count of 10 before you can send PM's

Roger that, danke!

[AKI]

my email is pmitic1973@gmail.com

[Josip]

Hi, Gycoo

Update on wiring:

I have a wrong reading of oil Temperature, it stays on 200 degrees and the compressor is stopped from a week. can you help with the terminals for the Oil temperature sensor are (PT100 probably)?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers

Error:
Temperature shows +200°C.


possible cause can be:

One of the wires to the temperature
sensor is either dismounted (except
for terminals 15, 19, 23 or 27) or is
connected to GND.

Best regards, Josip

[Josip]

Hi, gycoo

Hi guys,

Great and helpful forum.

I have a Sabroe Unisab II Sab 202 LF and from a week or so, the screen doesn't come on.

The reset LEDs from the electronic board is flashing and it doesn't boot up. The screen has a line blinking - like it's in a loop of booting up.

Because I have another identical machine, I switched the CPU board and the display+keyboard (the front cover) and found that both are fine. So I'm guessing that the piggy back board / relay board is broken.

Do you have any idea if the board is repairable, could it be the relays?

Any help will be welcomed.

Thanks a bunch!

Have a nice day!

ERROR:
Unisab II restarts without warning
during operation either with normal
picture or with “COPY EEPROM” on
the screen, or the display is flashing
simultaneously with diode RST1 on
cpu print and relay print.

INDICATION:

Can be indicated by touching the
eprom with the power turned on or by
changing to another cpu print.

CAUSE:
A) Loose socket on the cpu print


B) If it is not the cpu print, it might
be a defect in the power supply
on the relay print.

REMEDY:
A
Exchange the cpu print
B
Exchange the relay print


Best regards, Josip

[AKI]

Like I sad before

[AKI]

Only problem with SAB LF is to noise.

That is good compressor .

[gycoo]

@Josip, thanks for your message, mine didn't boot at all, I already swapped another CP board and it's the same, also tested the CPU print in another compressor and the CPU board works. The problem is somewhere on the supply line from the relay print but it's out of my league and I sent it for repairs to a company from Denmark. If Fedex will stop sleeping excessively, I should receive the board in the next few days.

Also, for the relay board with the temperature sensor problem: the problem is not the probe or the wiring, it's also the relay board, they are pretty old and I'm guessing this is somehow normal. As I lack the electronic knowledge to repair it, it will probably take a trip to Denmark

@Aki: The Sab LF seems a reliable compressor, this is why we're trying to delay the upgrade.

Again, this is a great comunity.

Cheers guys!

[RANGER1]

gycoo,
Thought about Unisab III upgrade?
Can waste a lot of resources with older electrical equipment, also reliability, especially if you need it to run.
Got to do it sooner or later.

UniSAB III (sabroe.com)

[gycoo]

gycoo,
Thought about Unisab III upgrade?
Can waste a lot of resources with older electrical equipment, also reliability, especially if you need it to run.
Got to do it sooner or later.

UniSAB III (sabroe.com)

I've seen it but got to admit didn't read too much on this. Is it as reliable as the II version? Do you have an idea of what to expect cost wise for replacing II with III? I mean a rough figure, as we have about 6 compressors running Unisab II.

Cheers

[RANGER1]

I've seen it but got to admit didn't read too much on this. Is it as reliable as the II version? Do you have an idea of what to expect cost wise for replacing II with III? I mean a rough figure, as we have about 6 compressors running Unisab II.

Cheers

gycoo,
They are definitely reliable & more functions.
You can replace one Unisab at a time, over time.
Price wise I don’t know in your part of the world, you would have to contact Johnson controls, or a representative. but every thing is changed out, pressure & temperature transmitters.
So I would say expensive for you & me, but a company, maybe not.
Costs nothing to get a price.
You are going to have to do it sooner or later.
If you replace one, then you have spares.
If you have a lot of redundancy you have time to do something, can you survive without a few machines in peak periods/loads?
I would offer to management to do the right thing in company interests.

[gycoo]

gycoo,
They are definitely reliable & more functions.
You can replace one Unisab at a time, over time.
Price wise I don’t know in your part of the world, you would have to contact Johnson controls, or a representative. but every thing is changed out, pressure & temperature transmitters.
So I would say expensive for you & me, but a company, maybe not.
Costs nothing to get a price.
You are going to have to do it sooner or later.
If you replace one, then you have spares.
If you have a lot of redundancy you have time to do something, can you survive without a few machines in peak periods/loads?
I would offer to management to do the right thing in company interests.

You're right, I will ask for an offer in the future and yes, I will have to do it at some point. Also, a great idea to change only for 1 or a few of them, as this indeed will leave us with spare parts for the old ones. I think we can survive without a few of them but I have to do a more in depth analysis.

Cheers

[AKI]

Josip I must say you are wrong. I work with Sabroe more than then 22 years. If you want my opinion or guys from Denmark UIII is a sheet PLC. Much better UII. I suggest like I sad in the beginnig just to replace MAIN RELAY BOARD , and he solved problem . To change UII with UIII will cost around 10000 euros. To change relay board it will cost maybe 2500.

regards

[AKI]

Gycoo I forged to say Sabroe answer to you will be "IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO REPAIR YOU MUST BY NEW" , believe me . I had that experience .

[AKI]

Sabroe newer repair anything exept compressors. I know them very well.

[RANGER1]

Josip I must say you are wrong. I work with Sabroe more than then 22 years. If you want my opinion or guys from Denmark UIII is a sheet PLC. Much better UII. I suggest like I sad in the beginnig just to replace MAIN RELAY BOARD , and he solved problem . To change UII with UIII will cost around 10000 euros. To change relay board it will cost maybe 2500.

regards

AKI, What is specifically wrong with Unisab III?

We only have a few, as new compressor packages.

[gycoo]

I didn't even try to contact Sabroe, as they are selling now Unisab III and of course they are not providing services for a product that is EOL for some time now.

Even though there are some companies that repair the electronic boards, in my opinion, the clock is ticking towards the boards won't function anymore, as they are not produced from some time, only refurbished. I'm pretty sure I can go on like this for a couple more years but I'm sure need to take into account the upgrade. I don't know now that the Unisab III is the way to go or not (I don't have enough info on this) but for sure it should be something that is still in production and service life.

The Unisab II is great, of that I'm sure but it will only be a limited time until I/we need to move on. Unfortunately nobody spends this much time/resources now as they did back then to design a product so personalized and so well tested. This is something that I keep see in other brands/industries as well.

Cheers

[RANGER1]

All these companies seem to use micro processors, Frick, Mycom, probably Sabroe & GEA.
In Australia & probably New Zealand we like to re-invent the wheel because we are so far away from USA & Europe.
We make & develop our own control systems with PLC. That way it can last forever if good PLC & programming.
OEM like plug & play, which is fair enough, so can select many system variations.
They are always developing & upgrading to stay in business.
Hardest thing is good PLC programmer.
A lot of OEM so complicated, as want to cover all bases.
I think they expect every 8-10 years new panel, so they keep busy.
Everywhere different of course.

It will be interesting on what AKI finds wrong with Unisab III

[AKI]

Josip if you Sabroe guys all of them will say that UII is most reliable than UIII. I have that info from service guys from Denmark. If you ask me my problems with UIII start from beginning in 2008. Numbers will tell you that thay made 20 upgrade of UIII. To try get short with this, first was frosen picture , second version was black display it was not possible to adjust , five years ago I made start up and after 24 hours just burned , after that I change now work perfect etc , I can not remember other problems , to be honest last few years I dont have problem with , maybe the reason of mailfuction is that UIII is made in China , UII made in Denmark , I dont know , but what is very interesting is when I ask guys from Denmark why did you made UII they sad to keep our job.

regards to all who follow this

[RANGER1]

Josip if you Sabroe guys all of them will say that UII is most reliable than UIII. I have that info from service guys from Denmark. If you ask me my problems with UIII start from beginning in 2008. Numbers will tell you that thay made 20 upgrade of UIII. To try get short with this, first was frosen picture , second version was black display it was not possible to adjust , five years ago I made start up and after 24 hours just burned , after that I change now work perfect etc , I can not remember other problems , to be honest last few years I dont have problem with , maybe the reason of mailfuction is that UIII is made in China , UII made in Denmark , I dont know , but what is very interesting is when I ask guys from Denmark why did you made UII they sad to keep our job.

regards to all who follow this

AKI,
Totally understand how easy it is to get put off a product that causes lots of stress & headache.
Danfoss has done a lot of that as well, so some products won’t touch as we found something better.
What would you use if you had to replace a Unisab today?

[Josip]

Josip I must say you are wrong. I work with Sabroe more than then 22 years. If you want my opinion or guys from Denmark UIII is a sheet PLC. Much better UII. I suggest like I sad in the beginnig just to replace MAIN RELAY BOARD , and he solved problem . To change UII with UIII will cost around 10000 euros. To change relay board it will cost maybe 2500.

regards

AKI, I can be wrong, why not ... but I do not understand why?

I agree with you, it is cheaper to replace cpu or relay print .... but that will not make
that Unisab II younger .... so, very next day there can be another problem .... agree?
In my opinion it is better to replace that broken one with newer model i.e. UNISAB III ..

I will do that if possible due to higher price.

AKI, What is specifically wrong with Unisab III?

We only have a few, as new compressor packages.

Nothing wrong (in my opinion), Unisab III is a good PLC and a new type either with
more possibilities then Unisab II ...

I was working a lot with both types ...
fortunately, without any big problems, so maybe,
I am not the best to speak about problems with UNISAB II or III ....

It is possible to replace either UNISAB II or UNISAB III with some
noname PLC it is much cheaper ... I have that experience too and
software within was not so bad either ...

... but for refrigeration compressor I prefer UNISAB II or UNISAB III
because they are dedicated to control only refrigeration compressor and
nothing else ...

All above is my opinion and of course
I can be wrong too, but not too much.


Best regards, Josip

[AKI]

Josip I agree with you . If customer will pay than should be replaced with UIII . Its true that UIII have more options like software protection from liquid hammer, installed and ready for more protocols like Modbus,Danbus etc.
With UII you must by separate and cost a lot.
Last year I change to one coldstore 4 UII with UIII because customer want to have reliable units . The old UII was running almost 20 years.

[mve555]

A bit late to this conversation, but I can repair/refurbish the Unisab 2 relay board if you are interested. Perhaps somebody can use this info in the future.

Been doing it professionally since 2014.

[w.l.ong]

All these companies seem to use micro processors, Frick, Mycom, probably Sabroe & GEA.
In Australia & probably New Zealand we like to re-invent the wheel because we are so far away from USA & Europe.
We make & develop our own control systems with PLC. That way it can last forever if good PLC & programming.
OEM like plug & play, which is fair enough, so can select many system variations.
They are always developing & upgrading to stay in business.
Hardest thing is good PLC programmer.
A lot of OEM so complicated, as want to cover all bases.
I think they expect every 8-10 years new panel, so they keep busy.
Everywhere different of course.

It will be interesting on what AKI finds wrong with Unisab III

Hi there, getting from Malaysia.
i have studying the Unisab II manual and it just a basis embedded PLC + display.
in here i have replaced electronic control PCB to PLC & Touch Screen (HMI),
All the PLC logic program & HMI are developed by myself. (i only know Idec PLC & HMI)
most of the PCB I changed to PLC are often used on Carrier, Trane & York water chiller with multi-compressor on it or Rack System. (for reciprocating compressor or Screw comp) logic is 1 temperature or Pressure to turn on/off the compressor 1,2,3,& 4. some with EEV control with modbus.

PLC is the alternative and easy for troubleshoot.
The latest version of HMI is with video format, which plays video of the refrigeration component location when Trip/ Alarm. as some technician do not know where is the tripping point or where to reset when there is an alarm.