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Thread: R111
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02-05-2006, 12:23 AM #1
R111
I would like to use a SOLAR COLLECTOR as an evaporator for an R111 system that would heat water through a chiller.
Thoughts?
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02-05-2006, 02:32 AM #2
Re: R111
I did a quick search for this fluid.
R-111 = pentachlorofluoroethane
Boiling point = 275F [135C]
My first thought (& question) is: This has chlorine in it, so is it permissible for use? It is listed as a CFC.
Second question: This has ethane also, so you need to be aware of the need for intrinsic safety with electrical devices.
If the collectors generate a sufficient temperature to boil this fluid, why do you need a chiller? The heat sink (the lower temperature you are rejecting heat to) will be low enough to condense the refrigerant at temperatures high enough for space heating.
You could use a refrigerant pump to circulate the fluid.
1) boil the refrigerant in the collectors.
2) the refrigerant vapor travels to the cold heat sink and condenses to a liquid
3) The refrigerant condensation process heats the water
4) the refrigerant pump circulates the condensed refrigerant back to the collectors for boiling again.
The idea is reasonable, but I don't think the fluid is suitable.
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02-05-2006, 09:05 AM #3
Re: R111
It is a CFC so won't be flammable - no hydrogen in it (the "ethane" bit only tells you about the backbone of the molecule that the Fs and Cls are attached to). Think you're right, wouldn't a lower boiling point be more suitable? Unless kettler means R11, but then that would be a bit low?
It's a lovely day to pump some gas
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02-05-2006, 11:21 AM #4
Re: R111
Why not using a water/water heat pump with std solar collector and a more environmental friendly refrigerant?
That type of HP would help in keeping the charge low...
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02-05-2006, 11:27 AM #5
Re: R111
Thanks everybody. I appreciate the information and dialoge.
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02-05-2006, 11:30 AM #6
Re: R111
Thanks! I think the refrigerant I picked is incorrect. Will look into.
Originally Posted by US Iceman
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02-05-2006, 03:13 PM #7
Re: R111
Originally Posted by Johnny Rod
If we bypass the CFC issue, the fluid could work if the Pressure/Temperature relationship does not exceed the design pressure limits for the collectors and system.
I think a lot of this depends on the type of collector (flat plate or concentrating and/or tracking capability). If the fluid can evaporate at 275F [135C] at atmospheric pressure it can also condense at the same temperature.
The lower heat sink temperature would be less than 275F [135C], so this could generate hot water (pressurized) or steam at atmospheric pressure. A simple thermosiphon, except the liquid would have to be pumped to the collector panels, if the heat sink is lower than the panels.
R-114 has been used in a similar application except I believe the system did use a compressor to circulate the refrigerant around the system.
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03-05-2006, 01:32 PM #8
Re: R111
It's part of the IUPAC naming convention. Ethane means the molecule has a backbone of 2 carbon atoms (methane is 1, propane is 3, butane is 4 but can be straight or T-shaped) and has 6 attachment points. When it's preceded by mono-/di-/tri- fluoro-/chloro-/bromo- etc. then these atoms are attached to the backbone. Any leftover spaces are taken up by hydrogen atoms - in ethane istelf there are only hydrogens attached (it is a HC). More hydrogen atoms means more flammable (HCFCs, HFCs). No hydrogens (CFCs and FCs) means not flammable, except at high temps. Pictures work better but I don't have anything to hand.
It's a lovely day to pump some gas
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09-05-2006, 11:37 AM #9
Re: R111
I'm looking for a list of REFRIGERANTS and their corresponding BOILING POINTS. Does anyone know where I can obtain the information?
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09-05-2006, 11:45 AM #10
Re: R111
Try coolpack or refpack in the database section above
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09-05-2006, 02:52 PM #11
Re: R111
Hello Kettler,
you can download this to see:
http://www.airah.org.au/downloads/AIRAH_RSG2003.pdf
maybe you can find something more at: http://www.airah.org.au/
Attached file is not complete (need to extract some pages to reduce file size)
Here at "Andy's HVAC/R Web Page" you can download REFPROP v1.0 Calculator for 38 refrigerants and some other useful things
http://users.isp.com//aschoen/
Hope this will help, come back with comments, please
Best regards,
Josip
It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious...
Don't ever underestimate the power of stupid people when they are in large groups.
Please, don't teach me how to be stupid....
No job is as important as to jeopardize the safety of you or those that you work with.
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10-05-2006, 12:24 PM #12
Re: R111
Thanks! I'm looking at the information you provided and will get back to you.
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