ebay

[eggs]

has any body else had this yet, after giving a quote for an install ?

"i can get one of ebay for £185, with fitting for an extra £150."

to which my reply is "$$$$ off and get one then, and stop wasting my time"

is our industry is being de-valued by some chancing import/exporters or is this the way forward ???

[Peter_1]

In the small wand splits till 6 kW?
Yes it is.
For me, it's a lost market since last year.
You can do two things: or you say that they can install it themselves or you can do the same, import the same sort of splits and sell them at these bargain prices.

(2,5kW for 250 Euro, copper and wires included, sometimes even a wall bracket included, I have seen already exact copys of the Mitsubishi M-serie remote controls..)

[chemi-cool]

Hi Eggs.

Over here you can get them at 200 euro.

But guys, where are all the laws you have imposed upon yourselves?

What happened to the New European community?
Can just any one install an air -conditioner?
No need for gas licence? electric licence?
Why do you make all those rules and laws and at the end of the day every one can buy and install an air-conditioner.

An explanation gentlemen, please.

Chemi

[Blueboy]

Sadly there is still a lack of kick to legislation. By next year it will be a requirement to have a 16th edition electrical certificate to work on electrics but this does not affect do it yourself works!! In your home you can do what you like as long as it's not heating or cooking gas. As far as Safe gas handling certification goes with out enforcement there is no point in making a law.

I saw a system on ebay that was sold for £425.00 It was a 2.2 kW wall mounted split complete with bracket cables isolator and pre charged 15M lines.

It is very tough game the domestic A/C market anywhere but in the UK forget it there are much easier livings to be made elsewhere

So to sum up Chemi no we have no proper legislation and no enforcement of what little we do have

[chemi-cool]

Blueboy,

These people have found this hole in the system and actualy taking the butter off your bread!

I dont understand how such a thing can happened.


Over here' you can get them even cheaper but you must use the service of a proper installer.

I must say that this leaves me puzzeled.

Why not do your MOT in your back yard?

Chemi

[eggs]

i have been looking into these a/c systems an ebay and found an import site called www.alibaba.com
now the puzzle is :
most of the systems have a prefix of kf(r) as per the "Gree" and "chigo" units readily available in the uk.
are they all the same brand, just re-badged ?
has anybody imported any ?
and finally is the new "carrier Allegro" one of them ?

cheers

eggs

[Peter_1]

And it can even worser:
1. Daikin is giving 1 day courses where you learn to install an airconditioning. They give you after that day a certificate that you're able to install airco's. So, it can't be that difficult

2. Last year, a salesman from Daikin visited us because we often install - sorry installed - Daikin. They should distribute then there small wallsplits till 5 kW via the big supermarket chains. In the box of the airco was a voucher. On that voucher, valid for an installation of the airco, were the names of installers who should install there airco. The installer receive after the installation the voucher and had to send it to Daikin Ostend.
So, they contacted us if we would also our name on those vouchers. Conditions for this (!!!) : 400 Euro. For this price, the installer had to deliver all the labor work and displacement for a standard installation (max 5 m copper), the copper, the wall bracket, the wires, and... 2 years warranty.

I think you all know the sort of peoples who always buy the cheapest and always try to avoid or pass any installer so that they pay the lowest price. They have that special very bad attitude that nobody may earn money on their back, all they do, they can it better than you, (they're in fact the worst DIY'ers) very often teachers in high school (I can know it because I have 3 of them in my family), especially those who teaches the more common courses like history, geography, languages, .....and in general peoples working for the state (police, customs, finance,...) The worst of all is a couple of teachers. If I should have to made a quote for them, well I should rise my price at least with 50%, some sort of pre-payment for the troubles that will come.

Well, if you have to install splits for such a peoples, there will always be something wrong with what you did.

Reason why we since then avoided as much as possible Daikin and switched as much as possible to other brands.
And all the Belgium installers should do the same, Daikin should learn quick that this isn't the right way .

Hey, Chemi, there will never be such a thing like a United Europe. Cultures, habits, laws, taxes, wages,... are too different from each other. If it comes, then it will take a century, at least.
Look what happens now in the more industrialized EU countries: big companies are moving away to other EU countries which can produce cheaper because taxes and wages are lower than here. What I think will happen is that the life standard of peoples in the EU will become after some generations more equal and that's not so bad, at least for those who have less now. It will be perhaps something for my grandchild's.

[chemi-cool]

Hey, Chemi, there will never be such a thing like a United Europe.

So Peter,
What on earth are you doing?
All the prices went up, less work, more people, life is harder.

Who is cutting the cupons?

At least you people know how to make a good strike when things go wrong.

Sorry but all the situation in europe does not make any sense.

Chemi

[Peter_1]

Well, that's the reason we try to focus mainly on the refrigeration and less on the airco market.

It's also becoming more difficult but in the refrigeration sector, you still can ask better prices, especially if the customers knows you or you are recommended by other customers they know.
They also know that they will need you in the future for repairs or maintenance work. They are looking more for a good service then for a good price. You always work with peoples who 'earn' money with their refrigeration equipment, so they're more willing to pay something more for a good installation.

You definitely has to be a better tech when you install refrigeration systems.

And if it's airco, then we try to avoid those who're looking for the cheapest prices. I try to figure this out already with the first contact. I'm going mostly on site to measure some things, to see if it will be a difficult installation and to see and feel what sort of peoples we're dealing with.
I think I developed over the years some sort of special sense or feeling to judge new customers pretty correct. If you can have a good chat and you can talk about otehr things then refrigeration or airco's, then it's mostly OK.

As I said previous, if the customer is a teacher, then we mostly don't give an offer when it's very busy.

Indeed, it doesn't make any sense her in Europe, especially if not everybody want's to join this new United Europe.
Like the British, but Blair will have anyhow his reasons, perhaps he loves to much Mr. Bush.

I have my doubts if this will be a good solution for us, Belgium. But this will be something for my kids.

[iceman007]

Eggs

I stopped doing residential work some time ago. I only do commercial stuff now. These a/c systems are all well and good until they go wrong- I had a job a couple of weeks back with a faulty PC board on it. I can't geta replacement anywhere so the system has to be replaced, in the long run it's more expensive. Work like this I don't need or want. If they call up then we try to qualify them as much as possible over the phone, or put the prices up to cover the aggro.
My opinion is that if they are driven totally by price-I don't want them on my database because it's a nightmare to service them as they will always want something for nothing.

Hope I haven't offended anyone.

James

[Peter_1]

My opinion is that if they are driven totally by price-I don't want them on my database because it's a nightmare to service them as they will always want something for nothing.

Hope I haven't offended anyone.

James

Anyway not me.
You think exact the same as I James, but you know this.
All that electronics don't serve anything and those cheap-price buyers.... .

[Jasper]

And if it's airco, then we try to avoid those who're looking for the cheapest prices. I try to figure this out already with the first contact. I'm going mostly on site to measure some things, to see if it will be a difficult installation and to see and feel what sort of peoples we're dealing with.
I

Peter,
We also avoid these people, most of our clients are long term customers who stay with us because they trust our company to design and install a system that will work and last

[dude]

a 3 ton condensing unit can be had for $500 shipped on eBay. If you have to have your condensing unit replaced before selling the house to get it in working order, it's definitely cheaper to order one, have it on your drive way, then calling the service to "install this" rather than buying it from them.

There's a significant profit they make when you buy it through them.

[benncool]

A young couple was building thier own house so they bought a system form the internet.

At first I felt sorry for them because they where obviously in over thier heads- money wise. I could see that the guy tried installing the ductwork. I started to explain what he had done it wrong and what I needed to do to fix it. Keep in mind that I have been in this trade for 40 years and I have kids older than this chap.

"Oh no you are wrong this was all engineered at the factory and they sent me all that I need to install this system."

"Okay, have a nice day."

I guess all we have to do is bite the bullet and don't install any equipment that we do not sell.