Work in Australia

[aus-bound]

Hi all, first post for me
We are thinking about living in Australia (Brisbane area) and i was wondering if any Ex-pats/Aus Fridgies could give me some pointers on work over there, is it easy to get, what sort of hours do you work, whats the pay like, would i need to get any other qualifications other than my CG level 2 and gas handling i already have?

Any general information that may be of help?

thanks

[iceman007]

Hi

Depends on how many years experience you have. To work in Australia, you have to obtain a valid skills assessment from the TRA before you can be eligible to work and reside there. At the moment I believe the wait is quite long-the best part of a year for the skills assessment, plus another 12-18 months for the skilled visa application. And most important of all- you will need to satisfy the points test-not at the time you lodge the application, but at the time it is assessed. So it isn't as easy as one might think.

The pay is generally a little lower than in the UK. I believe the hours that some of the guys I've worked with do are around 7am start through till about 4pm. Then if you do get out there, you will still need to undertake further tests in Australia before you will be allowed to work. Like anything else there's pros and cons, and it depends to a large extent what motivates you to emigrate. As in most places theres always a need for good quality engineers. The best advice I could offer you is to be 110% sure before you take such a step.

Regards
James

[Blueboy]

Look up in the members list a guy call Pagey. Go to "find" threads and read them I know for certain fact he has moved with his family to Brisbane and his threads were all about moving there.

[aus-bound]

Hi

Depends on how many years experience you have. To work in Australia, you have to obtain a valid skills assessment from the TRA before you can be eligible to work and reside there. At the moment I believe the wait is quite long-the best part of a year for the skills assessment, plus another 12-18 months for the skilled visa application. And most important of all- you will need to satisfy the points test-not at the time you lodge the application, but at the time it is assessed. So it isn't as easy as one might think.

The pay is generally a little lower than in the UK. I believe the hours that some of the guys I've worked with do are around 7am start through till about 4pm. Then if you do get out there, you will still need to undertake further tests in Australia before you will be allowed to work. Like anything else there's pros and cons, and it depends to a large extent what motivates you to emigrate. As in most places theres always a need for good quality engineers. The best advice I could offer you is to be 110% sure before you take such a step.

Regards
James

Thanks for the reply, no problem at the moment with the points , we get 120 with just me on the application and if they do go up the wife has a degree so we could use that, aswell as invest the bond if required. (or take the new process and go to the back of beyond less points req').
From what ive read so far i would need to take the restricted elec' license and re-do the gas handling.

thanks again for the info, we will keep looking and waiting till next august when we are going there to visit friends/have a good look around ourselves

Jon

[aus-bound]

Look up in the members list a guy call Pagey. Go to "find" threads and read them I know for certain fact he has moved with his family to Brisbane and his threads were all about moving there.

thanks for that, i will search him out tonight

Jon

[rbartlett]

got this unsolicited email from a fridge company in oz today..i applied and obtained a visa last year but turned it down (as have other fridgies I know in a simular situation..if you need help.......

cheers

richard


==============================================
Dear Mr Bartlett

Absolute Cool is an Australian owned family company situated in the Queensland, Australia, regional city of Toowoomba. Our major areas of operation are -

1. Sale and installation of domestic and commercial air conditioners primarily Daikin and Hitachi
2. Servicing of all air conditioners
3. Repairs to commercial refrigeration products

The company has operated since 1996 and is owned by David and Jo Capp, and employs 8 tradesmen and 4 office staff.

We are looking to employ a further 2 tradesmen, and due to a major shortage of qualified tradesmen Australia wide we are endeavouring to source appropriately qualified tradesmen from overseas to fill these positions. The Australia Immigration has advised that your application to come to Australia has been approved, and therefore you are in a position to accept a position in Australia.

With this in mind I would ask that you respond to this email as soon as possible, and could you reply to the following queries -

1 . Your interest in relocating to Australia
2 . Are you interested in relocating to a regional city and if so, do you have any concerns re housing schools etc
3 . Is there an Australian diplomatic office near you - it is possible to use their facilities to communicate with you and assist with immigration.

The Company is keen is source applicants as soon as possible and if there are any questions you would like to ask please do.

Regards,
Sue Fraser
Absolute Cool

[aus-bound]

Hi Richard. Do you mind saying why yourself and others you know decided not to go? We are still only at the looking into stage and any info relevant would be welcome.

Thanks for posting the email, at least i know if we do decide to go for it there are jobs around.

Jon

[FreezerGeezer]

Toowoomba, hey? I know it increasingly well, as we have a unit there. My other half is from the Gold Coast, and has made it clear that she wants us to move back some day, so we've begun to invest & prepare. For those of you who knew the Pretoria suburbs in the 80's, you'd feel right at home in Toowoomba.
I get the impression that finding work isn't a problem - there's lots of small-ish companies who'll give you a go. I was reccomended to try & do the electrical tests, etc, over here if possible, so that I could start straight away. Apparently in NSW it's not yet a legal requirement to have your electrical & refrigerant certificates, but most companies want you to have them, and the industry seems to be moving towards it being a legal requirement.
On the subject of points, one of my collegues moved to Perth. His brother was living there, but it still took 19 months for him to get his visa. The points allow you to apply for a visa, but having enough points does not entitle you to one.
Finally, I reccomend using one of the immigration consultants - I know people who are using Go Matilda, and seem happy with the service. Whatever one you use, however, it will make the whole process MUCH easier.
Has anyone heard from Pagey since he went out?

[aus-bound]

Thanks for the info. I didnt realise you could do the electrical test over here? Do you know if my current ACRIB CFC handling here would be ok or would i need to take there test? and again can you do that over here ?
We realise that just having enough points doesnt get us straight in, as it has took some friends of ours 18 months to get there (they are off there in 7 weeks)
Having just had to do 2 passport forms and 2 uk photo driving license applications we will definatley be using an immigration consultant

Jon

[rbartlett]

useful sites include-

http://www.jobsearch.gov.au/
http://www.workplace.gov.au/Workplac...53D529,00.html
http://www.peer.com.au/courses.htm
http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/
http://www.domain.com.au/
http://www.whereis.com.au/whereis/home.jsp
http://www.aussie-info.com/
http://www.homepriceguide.com.au/products/street/
http://www.hays.com.au/main/index.asp
http://www.australia.gov.au/
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin...ch?a=bhp&t=res

for those thinking of going-
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forum...?s=&forumid=54
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forum...?s=&forumid=32

and for those who couldn't wait to get back!!-
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forum...?s=&forumid=61

either way these forums are fantastic for would be emigrees sign up and use the search function etc..a few hours there and the need for an agent declines significantly

however alan at 'go' is a well recommended agent (and not the one we used )and v.active on the britishexpats site btw

the reason(s) we didn't go were many but include

the death of my father (brings home what family means...)
house prices rose in au to a point way beyond sensible
very low wages (apart from 750 valve everyone else seems to think 50k au is about right...)
long hours (the ozzies work an average week longer than ours!)
not quite the 'lifestyle i had in mind for sure!!!!!!!

it's interesting that a very very hot country has a very very big skill shortage for fridge guys' -doesn't it make you wonder why???????????

the cost of living is pretty much the same there as here (yes it is believe it or not!!)

http://www.woolworths.com.au/

-so combined with their lower wage lifestyle takes a battering

an ozzie fridge guy working here from perth told me recently

"sure you have the pool and beach,beach and pool, -that's because that's all you can bloody well afford!!"

there is a myth that we brits have got caught up in the 'she'll be alright mate' crocodile dundee surf's up paradise etc etc...i

t's not all sunshine, shrimp on the barbee and beach
(yes i know you'll say 'no not me -i'm realistic...'we all did/do)

however the ozzies go very quiet when mentions of hoons, racism,poverty,unemployment, etc etc as it's part of their culture to play down those bits of australia that doesn't match the 'gods own country' image

it's part of our culture to highlight the bad bits and downplay the good bits so we get a distorted view when comparing UK 'v' AU
(esp with those stupid TV emigrating programes making it worse...)

I'm not knocking au in anyway shape or form and the few ozzies i know etc are nice people etc and would happliy have a beer bought for me by any of them (unless it's fosters of course!!)

we used an agent and if i had found the britishexpats (above) site before i wouldn't have bothered

the hardest part is the TRA suss this and the rest will fall easily into place. (I have sent a copy of my TRA to a few fridgies in the UK for them to get an idea of what's needed...i should charge!!)

you will need a medical plus x-ray for all going
police checks

the rest is pretty much easly (esp as fridgies are being fast tracked as they are on the modl list)

once there you will need to have your skills re-assessed (the TRA isn't sufficent)
safe handling will need to be redone as will a electricians cert (note they will only allow fully qualified sparks to touch ANYTHING upstream of the isolator)

this process will take around 4 months

as far as i know you cannot take any tests in the UK to speed this up as every state has different regulations

anyway as you can probably tell the rose tinted glasses have fell off some time ago and whilst it's (possibly) not for us i wish you good luck and a fantastic life

btw-
it's interesting that we have at least 4 active ozzies here but not one has posted on this thread...

cheers

richard

[aj]

i must admit i was thinking of a move. you do get swayed with the crocodile dundee image. the weather the sea the beer and stuff. but in reality i would rather be home skint with my family than skint thousands of miles away.

[rbartlett]

[I get the impression that finding work isn't a problem - there's lots of small-ish companies who'll give you a go. I was reccomended to try & do the electrical tests, etc, over here if possible, so that I could start straight away. Apparently in NSW it's not yet a legal requirement to have your electrical & refrigerant certificates, but most companies want you to have them, and the industry seems to be moving towards it being a legal requirement.

i believe being licenced is a legal requirement in NSW.

http://www.workplace.gov.au/WP/CDA/F.../att_elect.pdf


A a/c friend in newcasltle NSW is prevented from working on elcetrical supply as he has only a restricted electrical licence

cheers

richard

[aus-bound]

So how much do you want for a copy of your TRA then?

[chemi-cool]

Good one Richard.

You have convinced me.

Its the unknown dream that attract people. Look at the pioneers who took over USA. All they had was a dream!

You've got to have a dream. Mine is different.

Chemi

[rbartlett]

So how much do you want for a copy of your TRA then?

an email address is sufficient

cheers

richard

p.s -still no ozzie input...I wonder why???????????

[aus-bound]

p.s -still no ozzie input...I wonder why???????????

All in the pub or on the beach or maybe as you say still out at work to pay the mortgage

pm sent with email address in

Jon

[baker]

Richard has hit the nail spot on. The affordability of housing is about half of what it was a few years ago.

Australia has picked up the US habit of proudly displaying all that is good while hiding the bad.

Australia has a unique lifestyle, but is rapidly trying to adopt the US way of things - mostly for the worst.

If you need to escape from where you are, Australia may be a good choice. However, if you have family and an acceptable lifestyle, I would stay put.

[750 Valve]

Pretty much right on... Been away working to pay for that house, car and 2 and 1/2 kids
Well the house and the car anyway, and hopefully there's no kiddies out there I don't know of
Gotta watch the footy on TV soon, its my ony weekend home in about a month and a half!! Will return your email aus bound after a few beers and a shout at the new plasma TV.
Theres your oz input, beer and footy (rugby league that is, none of that aerial ping pong aussie rules) gotta go now.

[rbartlett]

750
this old chestnut has raised itself again ;-)

as you're the man in the know...(so to speak)

please post the current situation re:

jobs
wages
hours
conditions
cost of living (house prices,food, medical insurance, petrol prices)
why rugby league is a rubbish game..
etc etc

cheers

richard

[Peter_1]

I'm also interested Valve 750.

[rbartlett]

peter

you not thought about the UK?

cheers

richard

[750 Valve]

You can all look at the cost of living for your self, visit a real estate web site in oz for god's sake!! Same for food, look up Coles or Woolworths supermarkets on line site and fill up your baskets with your own individual taste so then you can SEE FOR YOURSELF if you could afford it. Look up MBF or Medibank Private to see the cost of private health insurance.
To solve the wage issue I can only speak from experience, I'll find my company's enterprise bargaining agreement on the net and post a link, thats all I can do. It will take some time to find tho.
BUT, as for why rugby league's the best game... its not, its just better than aussie rules and more exciting than soccer, err footba- nah can't even write it let alone say it, Rugby League IS football. But Baseball's my game.

[750 Valve]

Got it, crikey its a long URL.
http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Se...=4&quickview=Y
Hope that works

[Mark]

Hi,750 valve

Good to see you online again what have you been up to install work??.

Best regards

Mark

[750 Valve]

So richard, I haven't yet been the slightest bit interested, I know quite a few do, can't see why tho, but I'd really enjoy it if you could could give me some insight into the wonderful economic masterpiece that is the UK and how much it would cost me to get treatment if I caught a rash off a pale skinned, rotten toothed pomme sheila from bristol who could suck like a hoover.
But nah seriously, whats so dear about oz besides the plane trip out here. I was seeing a girl who used to live in england and she reckons its 6 of one, half a dozen of the other as far as the costs of living, it was the lifestyle she missed in Oz. Never been to the UK so I can't speak from experience but **** it looks bleak in the photos, the streets are always wet! Send us some of that rain, all of our dams are WAY low, the whole country's in water conservation mode and its the middle of winter, used to rain all winter here, not any more... Bloody El Nino and the hole in the ozone layer (go r12)
You could be right richard, they could start stinging us bigtime for water usage, then the cost of living WILL go up.

[750 Valve]

G'day mark, its good to have a weekend at home, been commissioning two refurbs and a new store, all country work - living away from home. One's all old skool controls LP/HP timers etc, the others electronic control, one danfoss, the other CPC

[rbartlett]

$ 923.40
plus bits

you've gotta go some to crack that 100k barrier..!!!!

cheers

richard

[750 Valve]

You afraid thats all you'd be able to get?
Don't think you could crack a ton eh? well, if your good at what you do then you $923 is peanuts. We gotta set a minimum so all these pommes that want a slice of the good life have to work for crud while the boys worth their weight kick back on the good dollars, you'd be a stupid business to advertise top dollar, they only advertise bottom dollar cause they have to, I imagine all the other companies in oz do to, if you all were smart you might look some up instead of giving me **** and wasting my time.
Wheres MY info? how much do YOU get? How much will my rash cost to treat in liverpool hospital? Can I bludge off YOUR govt for nothing? Can I get away with my current fridge license? Does the dunny water spin clockwise or anticlockwise?
Do you have ****roaches? Is it customary to not wash in England? Why is dental hygeine so bad over there? Stuff you fellas, these are the things I want to know, do I have to start a new thread... "Work in the motherland" !!!

[rbartlett]

so there you go aus-bound a nice friendly ozzie willing to help you in your quest..

enjoy 'paradise'.................

cheers

richard

[Peter_1]

You can all look at the cost of living for your self, visit a real estate web site in oz for god's sake!!.. .

In other worths, DIY.
Well, try as an exercise to find all these figures for Belgium. If you don't know the correct URL's, you will never find it.
If you haven't a clue about the huge differences for houses in the different regions, then it's impassible to compare.
You can find terrain from 50 € till 750 /m²and even more !!

I think you had a bad day or those must be the symptoms of lack of water.

[Abe]

Maybe he had a " bad" day, but I havent laughed so much as I did reading this thread!!!

[rbartlett]

yes i know

and all that from a bloke who likes watching men play girly rounders

cheers

richard

[Abe]

Now Peter1, Could you handle Aussie culture, each and every day????

Come to UK...........England rather...........We need u here!!!

[Peter_1]

peter

you not thought about the UK?

cheers

richard

Yes and no, but - I think Richard - I sended you in the past a PM about this.

[Peter_1]

Now Peter1, Could you handle Aussie culture, each and every day????

Come to UK...........England rather...........We need u here!!!

If they all should be this way and every day.....?? No, not at all.

But I know, we all have from time to time a bad day, altough...if I see the avatar of valve750, he doesn't seem to have a lot of problems. He's now already for months (years??) with his nose in the bushes


PS: My wife and my youngest will spend next week or the week after some days in London. We need some rest after weeks of very hard working.

[aus-bound]

Hi everyone, thought i had logged onto fridgeman.com for a moment there
First off i'd like to thank Richard for the TRA skills application he sent me, also like to thank Chris (750valve) for replying to an email i sent him, some very usefull info there mate thanks. And also if he comes back on here a bloke called Stuart who i emailed, also some good info returned.

After looking around quite a few OZ websites from real estate to supermarkets to job sites, i must say i can't really see much difference between our 2 countries. I may/may not earn less per hour in OZ to start with depending how much my experience is taken into consideration, but if i have to start at the bottom again, so be it. I definatley would have a damn site better house over there than here, and also a smaller mortgage after selling mine here for the ridiculous price it is worth now (hope the market don't crash in the next 2 years ). General shopping don't seem any differant, some things dearer some cheaper. The weather? i'll not go there

But at the end of the day untill we have been there next August to see what Australia is like for ourselves and seen how some friends of ours are doing we wont know for sure, all i know now is that it is definatley something i have to check out while i'm still young enough to do it

Jon

[Abe]

Jon

U wont be dissapointed. Australia is a great country

[andrewuk]

The grass is not alway's greener on the other side .And some times it is , i moved from zimbabwe to england and the differenses are in some cases night and day and others no different at all, i was lucky i have family and some friends here and that helped a lot knowing people here , three years later i am now settled and quite happy the weather no worries mate , sometimes i miss the space i had but that is only momentary.

For you guy's born and grown up here the media bombard you with death and destruction so things can look rosy some where esle ,but move there and be away from all your family and friends
and things can get very lonely.

yes this country has problems but so do all countries i have come from a real problem place i know and the problems don't look so bad here.

if you are an employee of a company you may end up on a decent salary but thats it ,why not go on your own and start your own bussiness and put all your skills to good use and put more pounds in your pocket ,then life here will start looking
sweet , no employee makes money but the boss man does , there is a shortage a skilled people in this and all developed coutries as every one wants to a manager or sales man or a IT
person , no one wants to be a fridge/ac man , plumber or sparky so take advantage .

ciao for now

andrew

[aus-bound]

Jon

U wont be dissapointed. Australia is a great country

Cheers Aiyub i will find out next August

[Abe]

Andrew

Fancy that...........A rhodie on this forum!!! Well if u must know.......or u fugured...Im also from that neck of the woods....Harare, Salisbury, what ever you prefer to call it.

And, yes.........Thank God we left that despotic place

But think about it.........If that Ebagum character never came to foul the place up........Would you have left??

I would not have.............Now Australia is Rhodesia...........But a rich powerful Rhodesia..........Like what Rhodesia would have been..........

As someone said..........yes its getting materialistic like the States..........Hey 750, ( hope u like your new plasma)

But then it would.............Australia got a melting pot........So culturally, yes its going to be a lot more diverse, and yes........u got to work hard........very hard............out there

You asked how much your stay in hospital would cost 750?? In britain if you went NHS...............nothing. You can catch all the clap you like...........will get treated for free

If u want to go private.........Well thats another story

[Abe]

But most peoples motives for moving to Australia is this I think

Move away from conjested cities
More space
Oceans, countryside
Bigger houses and gardens
A climate which is amenable and encourages outdoor pursuits
Less rain, cloud and grey
Warmth

Ie; A better quality of life

I am not knocking UK..........UK has its own charms.....traditions, quirks......At end of day is an individuals choice where he feels comfortable

Australia also has the home away from home feeling........So jon..........Good luck to you mate!!! Australias gain will be our loss, hope the Aussies appreciate it.

[rbartlett]

[QUOTE=Aiyub]But most peoples motives for moving to Australia is this I think

Move away from conjested cities

yes if you want vast desert...don't forget 90% of au is uninhabitable which is why 90% cram themselves around the coastal reigon...

so it's not that much less 'crowded' these days

so you could compare downtown sydney in the rushhour with sleepy painswick in gloucester and get the inverse picture (and no less false either)

More space

yes if you want vast desert...see above..

Oceans,

we have oceans ....not quite as warm but not quite as many sharks jellyfish snakes etc..


countryside

what compared to england green and pleasant land..?? oh and no snakes spiders crocs here either...


Bigger houses and gardens

if you want to live in a bungalow like your granny...
but much less so since the latest housing boom..most available plots have halved in size since 2000...

A climate which is amenable and encourages outdoor pursuits

not necessarily..a lot of au is far too hot/humid to 'enjoy' in peak summer slows down outdoor pursuits somewhat....but generally yes for sure..

(interestingly after 20 yrs in this business I notice far far more moaning about the heat than the cold in the UK..)

Less rain, cloud and grey

don't move to melbourne then....

Warmth

agreed...but too much of a good thing maybe?????

Ie; A better quality of life

questionable for sure..

I am not knocking UK..........

as you shouldn't....


UK has its own charms.....traditions, quirks......At end of day is an individuals choice where he feels comfortable

agreed....but it's easy to miss what's in front of you...


Australia also has the home away from home feeling........So jon..........Good luck to you mate!!!

absolutely..

Australias gain will be our loss,

indeed..

hope the Aussies appreciate it.

i doubt it.....

cheers

richard

p.s I got another unsolicited email today from au -the locals possibly not up to the job perchance?????????

..................................................................................

Dear Mr bartlett

There are a number of companies in Australia that are currently seeking to recruit individuals from offshore for permanent and temporary placements in the engineering and resources sector.

If you would like to make contact with these companies, please refer to our website at http://visas.cciwa.com/index.aspx and go to the section titled “How can we help you” and “Looking for a job in Australia”.



If you do not wish to receive further information from the Chamber of Commerce and Industry WA please reply to this email address with the word “unsubscribe” in the subject line.



Kind regards

Daniel Engles

Manager, Business Visa Services

Chamber of Commerce And Industry WA



H http://visas.cciwa.com

* visas@cciwa.com

( +61 8 9365 7555

È +(0) 413024966

Ê +61 8 9365 7550



Registered Migration Agent No. 0213485. The Australian Government requires that people who give immigration assistance be registered as a Migration Agent.

[frank]

no employee makes money but the boss man does ,

I'd like to see the proof. I've only been in business for the last 20 years and I'm still waiting for the money to roll in.

When you start out on your own you don't realise just what is involved - yes, we all earn money to pay the wages but it's all the unpaid overtime doing the governments work that gets you down, together with the quotations, typing, book-keeping, etc, etc. just get your calculator out and work out how much extra you come out with each month when you swap over from 20% tax to 40% tax - figures never lie.

It's OK dreaming about what the bosses make but the reality just does not live up to it.

[chemi-cool]

Hi Richard.

Its 38C out all day, only cools down at night.

Would love to change seat with you till September.

Good quality about people is learn to appreciate what you've got. Very rare all these stories come true.

The thing about it, is that we only hear the success stories

What about all the loosers?

Chemi

[rbartlett]

hi chemi

you are always welcome to come over here;-)

yes it's funny we complain about the wind rain snow for 9 months of the year but the real moaning starts at 24 deg's c


cheers

richard

[Abe]

Frank

Im doing my accounts right now..........U know what??? For the hours I put in.........for the crap I take, For all the stresss

No..........Being your own bosss??? Naaahhhhhhhhh

Go work 9 to 5............Wear a suit, have business lunches.......go for motivational outings. Travel business class
Have expense accounts

And now u see ads on telly..........Had a fall........Not your fault?? Call free.........Accident Claim Helpline...........Miss X got 5000 pounds...........Yess Mr Y got 15000 Pounds

Everytime Im working..........I have to think.........Is there a serial Mr Bean about???

[andrewuk]

yup another zimbo is here pluging away earning a few pennies,
I was also in Harare i was with Capri corp . on the airconditioning side selling LG airconditioner's .

if they hadn't messed thing's up well no i probably wouldn't be here . i was getting on alright their nice house, car ,etc . started getting a little bussiness going Then realized queing for petrol all day instead of working is not good for bussiness and didn't work so good .
now i am here it's shock to the system with so many people squashed on to an island but on the whole its all good.

i should have come over a few years earlier when the houses where cheaper ,that is the main problem here a half decent house in good area costs a fortune ,anyway thats the incentive to get on with things .

anyway lifes a journy enjoy the ride .

as for ausy my sister moved there to the gold cost ,has some mates there from zim and loves it. where ever you go it helps so mutch haveing some one you know .


ciao

andrew

[Karl Hofmann]

I'm with you Abe, too many idiots about looking to claim on my insurances, so I'll never employ anyone. Being a one man and his dog band works for me, perhaps I have a bad attitude, but as soon as my van pulls up on my drive, the phone gets switched off. If it is urgent now, it will still be urgent at 8am.

The record for stupid times so far was 11.30pm a call for me to look at the ac on a 1980s Jag, when I gave him the quote the next day the quote was for more than the car was worth!

Being self employed means that you can pick the jobs that you do, chose the vehicle that you arrive in and finish work at a time of your choosing. I dont want to be rich, comfortable does me nicely, there are plenty of tradesmen who run round like a headless chicken and get nowhere, just step back and look at where you are going. I used to get stressed about my paperwork and VAT, but have found a really good accountant that doesn't charge the earth.

Austrailia?? No thanks its full of stressed grumpy Austrailians and other things that want to bite us

[chemi-cool]

Being a one man and his dog band works for me

Hi Karl,

I like that. Just like me.

Chemi

[rbartlett]

why, that's barely little more than a snack to some of our far eastern chums ;-)


cheers


richard