Type of equipment

[joe magee]

Curious, Here in the USA most markets use Hussmann, Tyler and Hill for market equipment. Everything from racks to singles from evap towers to air cooled condensers. compressors are Copeland and caryle. We use E-2s,Comtrol Rdm and Danfoss for controlers. Refrigerant is 404a, 507 and r22. I see that some countries are going to co2 as a refrigerant. Any issues with those high pressures? As far as a/c goes 410 is the new one with 407c as the new 22.

[coolhibby1875]

hi joe how are you liking the new rdm controllers i presume you are coming across these in fresh and easy stores, I personally think they are great if set up properly the front end data manager is very user friendly.

[joe magee]

I have to be honest with you that I don't have much experience with them. The company I work for sent a few people overseas to gain experience. They are in fresh and easy stores which by the way don't seem to fly over here. I did one start up and haven't worked with them since. I have heard they are a pain to get around but like anything else once learned I'm sure their fine.

[750 Valve]

In Australia most supermarkets use the following

Comps
Bitzer approx 70%
Copeland approx 20%
Other (Bock, Frascold) approx 10%

Racks are usually manufactured by the contractors, Companies such as Austral, Frigrite, Hussmann. Some are manufactured by wholesalers and comp maufacturers such as Bitzer, Heatcraft or others

Evaps and Condensers
Buffalo Trident approx 75%
Heatcraft approx 15%
Others approx 10%

Controls
CPC (E2 on new stores, E1 and RMCC on older ones) approx 45%
Danfoss AKC (255 on new stores, 55 on older ones) approx 20%
Presscon (Australian manufacturer) approx 20%
Microm (Guardian and Consultant) approx 10%
Others approx 5%

Refrigerant
R404a/R507 approx 70%
R22 approx 10% - decreasing
R134a approx 10% - increasing
Others (HP80, MP39, etc) approx 9% - decreasing
Co2 approx 1% - increasing

[joe magee]

We had one store with open drive bitzer screws on a hussmann rack. no one knew had to work on them There was oil everywhere with cat litter footprints tracking in the hallway. It was impossible to get parts for them and you could here them in the parking lot, it sounded like somebody was ramping up jet engines. They only used bitzer oil but no carried it on there trucks, only 200 td and poe. Everyone used 200 td. I was so happy to see that store go to hussmann. I had one contact at bitzer Canada that would help me. I will say that after two years I knew that machine room. That toilet also had cpc case controllers.ugh. Never saw a rack with 134a. That is a dying refrigerant here.

[750 Valve]

We have a few bitzer screws - predominantly semi hermetic though, some on VSD and yes they make a whine. Bitzer are pretty much the main supplier to the supermarket game here, they give good support locally and build robust machines. Most companies carry BSE32 oil as a norm, and even use it in out of warranty Copelands. Copeland sees a small market share here, they are a bit more costly with bugger all product support - plus they are noisy as all hell.

With Europe moving away from R404a and Australia following suit we are seeing a lot more MT and HT installs on R134a - mostly semi hermetic screws, as the supermarkets look towards future costs and availability. This has spawned a new generation of Woolworths stores on R134a MT and cascade R744 LT, no R404a at all. We can no longer do a refit on R22 let alone a new store.

Interesting times....

[joe magee]

I know at one market we retrofitted r22 with icor new 22 which is an hfc. We kept the oil 200 td and had nothing but leaks throughout the store. Every llsv leaked at the stem. Walmart has it's own refrigerant in the works. They buck the trend and do what they want , they use 200 td not poe oil with 404a and they use novar controllers which are glorified time clocks. Then there is Target which uses Hill racks , digital scrolls. They use dual temp cases and have Two liquid lines one sub cooled one non subcooled just turn the switch which is just a di pt. it's the most over complicated rack I have ever seen for what the are trying to achieve. Energy is a big factor in California and everybody is trying to use less.

[hillbillywillie]

I work on mostly copeland compresser racks and conventionals.
We do Homelands, Crests and Uniteds. The equipment is invariably old and so we're kept fairly busy-at least we were! It seems to be quite slow at the minute here.
I've worked on cases from the 50's still in use in some small town stores!

Wallyworld uses carlyle here-don't mind working on their systems as usually they're labelled and tidy.

I worked at a Super H once that had a motor room like the black hole of Calcutta. No two bits of the equipment were hanging the same way!

[mrfrze]

Mr Magee, few things:

1) Spell check.

2) Bitzer Screws (and Recips) are the quietest on the market - barr none (check their website they publish their db). Have you ever worked in a Rack room with Carlye 06T Screws? You WILL lose your hearing!

3) I've called Bitzer for Tech support (770-503-9226) numerous times with EXCELLENT results. So you are aware, the Market share throughout the WORLD (except the US) is held by BITZER! They are also slowly becoming aggressive in the US and are now spec'd in several chains. In fact, one Warehouse Chain is removing Copeland LT & MT Scrolls and Discus and replacing them with Bitzer Octagon. Think about this, after removing the Scrolls - they pull anywhere form 25-35 GALLONS of Oil out of the system..

I am PRO Bitzer - I admit, they design and build a VERY good product. If I may make a suggestion, check their Web-site - R410A Recips, CO2 Recips, Screws and Recips with VFD...they rock.

Just my Humble opinion.

Mrfrze

[joe magee]

Mrfrze, I apologize for my spelling, English major I'm not nor am I a narcissist. Out of the hundred or so machine rooms in So Cal, I have come across Bitzer compressors once. That doesn't mean that they are not used elsewhere. As far as the noise level, these compressors in THIS machine room are louder than recips in other machine rooms I've worked in. As far as tech support and parts availability I didn't find them very accommodating.

Just my humble opinion

[mr cool]

Here in the UK i work in asda stores, the british arm of wall mart
we use lindie full and half glass door freezers and lindie and nuttals chiller cabs.
we have very few recips any more due to electricity consumption and most stores use scroll compressor ( up to 8 comps) packs R404 all the way and the odd integ on r134a rdm controls and 50/50 akv/tev expansion, I have used most of the other controls out there and RDM take some beating and you can look at your stores (and everyone elses) from home! all is good.

[DocFreeze]

I'm not sure exactly what the original question was, but it appears we are sounding off on what equipment we use/work with. I'm an in-house designer for a mid-sized regional chain, and we are currently using Carlyle open-drive comps. We've developed a new application for old... really old-school compressor technology that improved our install and operating cost, and gives an estimated life of about 40 years with near-zero maintenance (on the compressors, at least). These improvements are compared to about a dozen Carlyle screw systems (half with VFDs), and many Hussmann, and Tyler Racks that are slowly being changed out with the open drives.
In our exp with screws, the efficiency wasn't what it was cracked up to be, and only marginally better than rack systems. The noise is unbearable, and the ability to control it is sometimes very elusive. We've added soundboard to the walls of the machine room and catwalk in between MR and Sales Floor and still get audible noise at the checkstands in one store. Others only needed sound board in the machine room. My guess is that certain lengths of pipe will act as a tuning fork for those high frequencies.
We've got 1 store with CO2, but it is not a transcritical system, so I don't have any experience with 1000+ psi gas.