VRV heat recovery which manufacturer.

[LRAC]

Just a quick question, which manufacturer for a heat recovery vrv/vrf air conditioning system. Do we install a 2 pipe or other manufacturers using 3 pipe.

What are the advantages for the installer of each method of system and which are easier.

We have looked at Sanyo (preffered at the moment), Mitsi, Hitachi, Daiken which is really best for us and who helps the installer most.

System size 90Kw over 2 floors with 15 indoor units of mixed cassette & high wall.

Kind regards
LRAC

[beagle]

Support from Sanyo and Hitachi are top notch in my opinion, Daikin only if you are already or have the potential to be a D1 and Mitsi likewise for their "partners", for one off jobs support from both of those can be lacking and you'd probably be better off dealing with one of their distributors, you'll get the same price. As you've said Sanyo is the preferred option at the momen be ready to supply their quote when asking for alternatives, price matching is common place now and all the manufacturers you mention should be able to hit the same price points. As for the 2 pipe vs 3 pipe debate, there's a whole stack of info on that around here somewhere already with all the pros and cons.

[stuartwking]

2 pipe/3 pipe. that is a million dollar question. I think it all depends on the building you are applying it to.
Maybe get some reps and speak to them.
I dont no anything about Sanyo (Mitsi/Daikin man myself) but i am interested to see there take on things.

[frank]

Most, if not all manufacturers offer decent vrv/vrf kit nowadays, and they all work to the best that the electronic controls can provide.

There are obviously differences in the software programming so some brands perform better than others, but, hey, it takes a good man to see the difference

There are however, basic differences between 2 pipe and 3 pipe systems (Mitsi excluded). A 2 pipe system outdoor unit can only provide heating or cooling at any one time (heat pump) whereas a 3 pipe system can heating and cooling at the same time.(heat recovery)

You need to determine what you need indoors and then make your selection based on this. If you are looking to condition a large open plan office that has one side in sun and one side in shade then the 3 pipe system may be best suited, as it would also be with a hotel install, 3 pipe is nearly always needed. One room may call for cooling but the adjacent room may want heating.

At the end of the day it will all come down to cost

[stuartwking]

Frank i totally agree, but why not get the best of both world. 2 PIPE HEAT RECOVERY.!! Mitsubishi electric systems are one step ahead. As for cost mitsi seem to be in the same ball part with price to other manufacturers. I guess the application is the important aspect to consider.

[Prince Vaillant]

Am i correct in assuming Sanyo is rebadged Airwell?
Not that there is anything wrong with either of them.

[LRAC]

Airwell have badged up the Sanyo VRF system as Airwell.

[Greengrocer]

If you have simulataneous heating & cooling demands (e.g. internal & external offices or meeting rooms) then you should consider 3-pipe otherwise you will have the age old problem of one or two areas "locking up" the system operation in one mode or the other to the exclusion of others.
If you don't want to have all your "eggs in one 3-pipe refrigerant system basket" then consider multiple smaller capacty 2 pipe systems serving individual zones, floors or faces of the building e.g. internal, north / south etc. This makes for smaller outdoor units which are easier to manhandle and locate on crowed roofs. Also individual system refrigerant charges are reduced which helps to comply with BSEN 378 (min frig charge in relation to smallest room volume).
In my experience you can buy at least 20% cheaper than Daikin / Mitsi Elec. Not every job needs or can afford a premium manufacturer in the current climate.

[Suffolk Fridge]

Any application has to be mitsubishi's new pury-yhma series. Best kit on the market by far, fit the fan coils with par-27 controllers and you are laughing. The only thing where daikin excell is the I touch controller, but mitsubishi are now bringing out a touch screen version of the G50 to compete, although im yet to commission one.

[Thermatech]

The Mitsubishi Electric AG150 touch screen central control is a very good controller which is installed the same as a G50.

It is very easy to set up & use

Commissioned one this week

Set up & full operational in about 10 to 15 mins

No activation code needed
No manual needed
No phone calls to tech help desk needed

For basic set up just set the
language
date & time
each indoor unit / remote control / group & name
time clock schedule

Bobs your uncle
Job done.

There is loads more you can do with it which you would need to look at a manual or ask technical help.
But for basic set up & operation its plug & play.

[LRAC]

Having looked at all of the pro's and con's it looks like Sanyo 3 pipe system, cheers for your advice guys.

[DL A/C]

we recently installed 3x 3-pipe sanyo vrf systems into a car dealership for a contractor and thought they were a great piece of kit!! very easy to setup and commision with no niggling little problems on start up. highly recommended!!