Gas detection

[Mark]

Hi

What are peoples views on modern leak detection systems.(*****)
Help or hindrance?
Regards Mark

[Latte]

Hi Mark,
Only had dealings with the one at the store in Haverhill which is and elm system and its C***.

Everyday it goes off, readings all over the place & the manager is convinced there is a major leak all the time although we never put in gas.

Most big plantrooms should be ventilated so if there is a leak big enough too set them off you should get case alarms anyway.

Anyway have fun GRABBING all the overtime, i like these maintainences that can only be done by regional supervisors, i get to my bed each night.

Regards

Raymond

[Mark]

On occasion they have saved stock loss.Leaking LLSV body mounted on roof ,leak detection alarmed (2AM) i attended call replaced LLSV, evacuated and left operational.

Me and the customer both happy

[750 Valve]

BIG help!... in supplying easy callouts and lots of $$$$. Yes true they can actually detect leaks, I've attended a call that a sniffer has picked up, but I can only remember one. Where as I couldn't count the number of callouts for gas detectors going bezerk while stores are being cleaned (vynil floor polishing).

[Latte]

Yes ive heard you get alot of call backs

Well, Regional Supervisors get all the "M" overtime, have to get some somehow, At the end of the day do gas leak detectors actually save money on gas. When you count up all the Non-calls does it come to more than the gas on the odd occasion you do have a leak.

Regards

Raymond

[Mark]

Well, Regional Supervisors get all the "M" overtime,

Ray, are you sure.

I think the calibration and servicing of these leak detection units plays a big part.(Believe me i speak from experience).
Once they have been cleaned/calibrated tested they are not a problem,the thing is not many supermarket groups have them serviced

Regards Mark

[frank]

On larger systems (especially VRV/VRF) these leak detectors are mandatory under EN378.

[Latte]

Ray, are you sure.

I think the calabration and servicing of these leak detection units plays a big part.(Believe me i speak from experience).
Once they have been cleaned/calabrated tested they are not a problem,the thing is not many supermarket groups have them serviced

Regards Mark

Ever done any of this, i have never heard of it being done.

As to them being mandatory, is it also to have them checked & service records kept as well.

Regards

Raymond

[Mark]

Ever done any of this, i have never heard of it being done.

Yes Ray,One of the larger sites i look after has case,coldroom and plantroom leak detection.The units are tested/calibrated and or replaced annually(CDK) This helps prevent nuisance calls.
They have saved considerable refrigerant loss in the past.

Regards Mark

[frank]

We were called out to a leak detection alarm recently only to find that the customer was having a new floor fitted and the adhesive fumes from the carpet glue had set off the alarm. As the adhesive took days to cure the leak detection system had to be disconnected for some days.

So how good are these systems really?

[Mark]

Hi frank

Yeah the floor cleaner/ glue /adhesive is a problem ,I had a number of calls for gas detection at one of our stores.
It was dealt with by CDK who manufacture the gas detection units,they attended site,changed sensing heads,calibrated where required and since then the only call for gas detection did save potential shut down .

One other point to make the George Barker Universal Controllers can generate an alarm as gas detection even when no gas detection unit connected.This is often caused by faulty alarm relay real pain .It will generate an alarm at the top end

Regards Mark

[allanbaker]

What about liquid level alarms, we install level probes in the reciever tank and monitor on computer system and one can check slow decline in levels in percentages with an alarm on a minimum percentage, or a float level in the reciever linked to an alarm.

[Mark]

Hi allanbaker

Liquid level alarms are standard in most supermarket pack installations
It is often done by a optical sensor on the reciever,after the level drops for a predetermined time an alarm is generated,and/ or dials out.
Some of the "select" installations have had there sensors disconnected though by somebody.

Best regards

Mark

[Latte]

Hi All,
Anyone got any details of serviceing/calibrating CDK Gas detectors as i am getting totally p~~~'d off doing a 150mile round trip because a sensor is going off and when i get there and strip the cabinet not finding jack.

Had a look on the CDK website and it just say's about them coming out yearly to do it all. Hmmm, that sounds like a nice little earner for them

Regards

Raymond

[Argus]

On larger systems (especially VRV/VRF) these leak detectors are mandatory under EN378.

Are they?

Where does it say that in the standard?
________
bho hash oil

[Ian_Eb]

Hi All,
Anyone got any details of serviceing/calibrating CDK Gas detectors as i am getting totally p~~~'d off doing a 150mile round trip because a sensor is going off and when i get there and strip the cabinet not finding jack.

Had a look on the CDK website and it just say's about them coming out yearly to do it all. Hmmm, that sounds like a nice little earner for them

Regards

Raymond

Give the office a ring, and speak to either myself or Mark. We should be able to sort you out

[Latte]

Thanks Ian,
May have to do that Tuesday before i completly loose it and drive a hammer through this dairy unit that keeps alarming out.

Was interested to read Marks post about faulty alarm relays so may have to ask him about them next time i see/speak to him. Don't know if he's on holiday at the moment as havn't seen him online recently.

regards

Raymond

[frank]

Read this - most of it is now incorporated in EN378 http://www.acrib.org.uk/Use%20of%20H...Guidelines.pdf

See section 2.6.5

Where the concentration level would exceed 0.44kg/m3 within a room by means of a refrigerant leak (i.e. on a VRV/VRF system) then a fixed leak detection device is mandatory to satisfy EN378 - 400

[Mark]

Give the office a ring, and speak to either myself or Mark. We should be able to sort you out

Lets hope not just kidding Ian

[whiffnsniff]

rdocwra - I take it your having problems with a Yokogawa HGM200a unit there.
It most probably just needs a recalibration as pointed out.
They should be serviced annually(or there abouts)
You'll most probably fnd that the IR bench is out of cal.
Press area 1 and then verify zero - the unit will go into purge mode and bring up a figure on the LED's.
if this figure is lower than 0010 or above 10 then you are likely to get false readings.
Also the diaphram in the pump may be faulty if its showing a
??20 fault.
I spent my first year with Elm going round the country repairing and servicing loads of them - spent a few days with the guys in Yokogawa Atlanta doing some training and showing them a few tricks as well
By the way I don't work for Honeywell/Elm anymore - work for myself now and obviously my services are for hire if you want any Honeywell/Elm or RDM equiptment serviced/commissioned

[chillyhamster]

Under the proposed F gas proposals, any system which has an entrained refrigerant volume will require monthly leak checks or a continuosly monitoring refrigerant detector. Under proposed health and safety legislation, it will require leak detection and visual / audiable indication to be fitted to coldstores/coldrooms (qualifying volumes unknown at this time). Plant rooms with condensing units / plant which have Prv's (including fuseable plugs) which are not piped to a suitable outside vent, will require refrigerant leak detection equipment to show if room is free of refrigerant ?????????? Forgot about the extract systems ?????? damm loony ec rules which most of europe will ignore (except scandinavia)

[chillyhamster]

Forgot to put the f gas limits. below 3kg no check, 3 to 30 kg annual leak check, 30 to 300kg quarterly leak check, over 300kg monthly, No specification as to what constitutes a leak check, Just plant end, plant and heat exchangers, or total system including pipework. Now thats a minefield for you.

[Peter_1]

Where the concentration level would exceed 0.44kg/m3 within a room by means of a refrigerant leak (i.e. on a VRV/VRF system) then a fixed leak detection device is mandatory to satisfy EN378 - 400

But a VRF is mostly not istalled inside the building .

[Peter_1]

..... are for hire if you want any Honeywell/Elm or RDM equiptment serviced/commissioned

and for such a young boy of 5 years old according to your birthday (01-01-1999) in your profile.
Some learn the job VERY fast.

[whiffnsniff]

A bit older than that mate.

Aye - The EU are bringing in all these new regs and I can guarantee you one thing . The UK will be the only country which enforces them to the hilt.

[Dowadudda]

Very new here and just taking a look around. This is a very cool site.

Yokagowas are the best in my opinion if were measuring, but most all of them are fairly accurate if there kept in caliberation and if the alarms outs are not set for real low parts per millions detection.

However. Most I see are simple nuisances because nobody keeps them serviced. There like a forgotten thing.

I like receiver level indicators much more I think. But they break or short out all the time too.

[whiffnsniff]

Dowadudda.

I was out that way a few years ago and installed some Yoki's in a few A&P sites there.
You've got sites running on the echelon system out there from Elm's first foray into the states if I remember correctly.

Spent a good 6 months out there working on sites up and down the west coast.
Had a great time

[frank]

But a VRF is mostly not istalled inside the building .

The pipework connects all the indoor units together Peter and therefore a leak on the system indoors could allow the whole charge to be lost into one room.