Banana

[gerryboy00]

Hi guys,
I just discover this site not long ago, and being impress with all the knowledge.

I live in Quebec, Canada. Being working in this trade since 1980, french speaking.



Is any of you guys ever work on, or have experience with banana rippening room?

[chemi-cool]

hi gerry,

I did a work on the subject when I've finished studying refrigeration.
sorry, could not find the papers, my wife must have thrown them away because of the yellow colour.(so easy to blame it on her)

anyway, its a tricky business, for transporting you will need a nitrogen rich atmosphere to keep them from rippening.

for rippening ,ethelene is needed, co2 extraction.......

you should look in university's publications about the subject. there must be many of them on the web.

I can refer you to apublication by: MARRIOT,J. FROM 1980 CALLED: BANANAS- PHYSIOLOGY AND BIOCHEMISTRY OF STORAGE AND RIPPENING FOR OPTIMUM QUALITY.

it was published by university of california, so I belive that they have a copy.

one more source, is the banana growing organizations in central america and the region, they must be experts on the subject.

good luck with your bananas, for the record, when you get the relevent information, please post it here so we can all share it.

chemi

[chemi-cool]

check this site, they make fruit rippening systems
http://www.ventechagrionics.com/
they might help

chemi

[gerryboy00]

Hi Chemi-cool, thanks

I do work on rippening rooms since 10 years, 15 rooms with 2 INTERKO evaps. coils in each rooms (capacity of 10 tons/coil) ripenning process control with PROBA BA-110 controller.

They use Ethy-gen 2 ripenning concentrate

Everything is OK …….except for the coils conditions.

Copper/aluminium fins
the copper distributor (8-¼ o.d tube) and ret. bends are leaking badly since couples years…..
Distributor and return bends have tendency to FLAKE!!!
The expose copper are all green (vert de gris)

Age of coil 10 years…(2 rooms---starting to leaks 5 years ago) …the other 13 rooms left are 3 years old.(one or two of them already leaks on the distributor lines.)

I will try to find a picture on deteriorated copper tube ,on the net, that looks about the same and put it on this site.

Ps : tons of tomatoes are in a room adjacent to the rippening room……..where they take theyre air, for air change in the room trought the process. ( 60 min. of air change each 8 hrs of operation)



Gerry

[Peter_1]

Why not using Goedhart stainless evaporators? Not that expensive.

If you give me the needed capacity, I can look what they cost here in Belgium.

I'm sure they deliever them elsewhere. Very good product. We call it the RollsRoyce of the evaporators.

[chemi-cool]

hi gerry.

peter was ahead of me, that exactly what I was going to offer you.

there is no other solution for the problem. dont get near blaygold if anyone suggest it to you, its only good for condensers,

I had such a problem in a goat cheese rippening sold store.

I did just that and the problems gone for good. I even added a small extracting fan with electric louver which opens for 20 seconds every 30 minuts and extract the gas.

you will also need to protect the copper tubes and TEV. my solution was to paint them with epoxy.

chemi

[gerryboy00]

hi

thanks for your answer.

In a perfect wolrd, stainless piping would of be the best.(in fact there is 20 filacell (humifresh) that are build with stainless piping in the same wharehouse for others fruits storage.(apple,orange,celery,etc)


the facts are that those %?$/ banana rooms are copper built.

the end result will be that we will submit new evap. (copper) with special coating ......might live a little longer

[chemi-cool]

please do not do it!?!

all the platijg will not last. from my expiriance, in the spot where the fins are attached to the copper, you will have the problem.

its not worth the invesment. go straight to SS and solve the problems permanently.

unless you want to come back, but that is a bad practice.

chemi

[Peter_1]

Hi Gerry,

Or http://www.vdhproducts.nl/

Agree completely with Chemi, once you will have little cracks in the coating (due to unequal expansion and crimping of copper tubes and alu fins) the problems will start again.

If you want a long warranty on the coating in Belgium, then the coating has to be redone (eventually partially) each 5 years or so.

What we often do is spraying zinc on the fins and especially the bended copper turns on an evaporator.
It's a zinc spray made here in Belgium but each country has it's own product I suppose.
It's almost the same as warm galvanization. The heat transfer remains +/- the same and zinc is the best solution for this (lower in electrolytic ranking than copper)
There publicity is good, look for yourself at
http://www.zinga.be/

And I'm almost sure that the price of a SS evaporator will not that expensive compared to a coated one.
Give me the capacity you need, TD, room temp, humidity and I will make a selection.

I had a representative of Goedhart (Andy, he knew that Star often installed Goedhart) with me last Friday and I talked of this problem with him.
Someone of Goedhart will probably join this group to give us advice on evaporators and condensers.
In the first place they were interested what gas or material in banana rooms is responsible for the corrosion of the copper?

[Andy]

Hi Peter
Goedhart are a good cooler, we have been using their coolers on R744 (carbon dioxide) jobs, but I have a feeling that they are now our prefered supplier. Very little problems with these R744 jobs, which are using relativly low defrost condensing pressures without freeze-ups.
Regards. Andy

[gerryboy00]

Hi peter
thanks for your offer!

[VENTECH]

hi gerry,

I did a work on the subject when I've finished studying refrigeration.
sorry, could not find the papers, my wife must have thrown them away because of the yellow colour.(so easy to blame it on her)

anyway, its a tricky business, for transporting you will need a nitrogen rich atmosphere to keep them from rippening.

for rippening ,ethelene is needed, co2 extraction.......

you should look in university's publications about the subject. there must be many of them on the web.

I can refer you to apublication by: MARRIOT,J. FROM 1980 CALLED: BANANAS- PHYSIOLOGY AND BIOCHEMISTRY OF STORAGE AND RIPPENING FOR OPTIMUM QUALITY.

it was published by university of california, so I belive that they have a copy.

one more source, is the banana growing organizations in central america and the region, they must be experts on the subject.

good luck with your bananas, for the record, when you get the relevent information, please post it here so we can all share it.

chemi

Suggest you visit our webs site ventech co uk. We make ethylene generators for ripening bananas, so you are welcome to cointact me for more info

There is no truth in the suggestion that you need a nitrogen rich atmosphere. Nitrogen is mixed with bottled ethylene in the ratio of 95 % Nitrogen to 5% ethylene to prevent risk of flame or explosion from pure ethyelene. I actually inhibits ripening. If you use a VENTECH ethylene generator, there is no risk as the amount produced is well below the explosive limit. Room temperature is between 15 & 18 Deg C & humidity as high as possible. After 24 hrs the room must be purged of CO2 produced by the ripening bananas by opening the doors or truning on an exhaust fan for about 20 mins.

Also go to the UC Davis web site & check their produce facts

[Josip]

Hi, Ventech

welcome to RE forums...

Suggest you visit our webs site ventech co uk. We make ethylene generators for ripening bananas, so you are welcome to cointact me for more info

There is no truth in the suggestion that you need a nitrogen rich atmosphere. Nitrogen is mixed with bottled ethylene in the ratio of 95 % Nitrogen to 5% ethylene to prevent risk of flame or explosion from pure ethyelene. I actually inhibits ripening. If you use a VENTECH ethylene generator, there is no risk as the amount produced is well below the explosive limit. Room temperature is between 15 & 18 Deg C & humidity as high as possible. After 24 hrs the room must be purged of CO2 produced by the ripening bananas by opening the doors or truning on an exhaust fan for about 20 mins.

Also go to the UC Davis web site & check their produce facts

Nice and useful answer, unfortunately that thread is 4 years old....

Best regards, Josip

[taz24]

All copper fittings should be outside the room. All TEV's should be outside the room and all pipes inside the room should be galvanised at the least, stainless if possible.

I have worked on these rooms for Delmonte and they use the best equipment possible.

If you are experiencing faults on excisting systems you have limited choice. You will either have to keep on repairing what you have or replace them for new.


Cheers taz.

[VENTECH]

Yes but the facts haven't changed
Thanks for your comment though

[Jemal]

Hi woul you give me a complet information about bananas cold rooms and how to make them yellow

[750 Valve]

Hi woul you give me a complet information about bananas cold rooms and how to make them yellow

a good quality, oil based semi gloss paint should work

sorry guys just couldn't resist, afterall - this thread is 4 years old