Design and build

[multisync]

We have just been asked to quote a 150k VRV install. The M&E main contractor has asked for complete design and build with spec and full drawings. They also want 'as is' drawings done after too..

We don't have anything or anyone who can do this (although we said "of course!!" of course) does anyone here have a lead who can produce the drawings for us..and what the fee might be?

Multisync
London

[SUBCONTRACTOR]

We have just been asked to quote a 150k VRV install. The M&E main contractor has asked for complete design and build with spec and full drawings. They also want 'as is' drawings done after too..

We don't have anything or anyone who can do this (although we said "of course!!" of course) does anyone here have a lead who can produce the drawings for us..and what the fee might be?

Multisync
London

Main contractor seems to be very greedy , don't leave a tiny chance for a small company......

[airflo]

usually the main contractor would supply the specs and you supply the as builts once the project is finished.

Looks like you need a HVAC Engineer, should be able to find one locally in London.

They will contact Daikin about the layout of the system and work out how it all has to be done.

Correct me if im wrong anyone>???

[Makeit go Right]

Suggest you give Daikin a call(or Mitsi). Maybe they will design it for you, and possibly give you the guts of the spec that you need. Then you just need to tidy the spec/quote so it comes from you and sort the drawings.

With the drawings, the builder should be able to give you some Architect's drawings (prints). What I would do is biro on top of those printed drawings showing the locations of the equipment and lots of notes added (base for units, etc), change the title block to suit; then get the printer to run off some new prints of the marked up drawings. Presto!

Once the job is completed, get a set of their latest Architects drawings (sometimes there are partition changes etc) and repeat the above with the final routes/locations.

You could also get by using the manufacturer's O&M manuals in a file with a few bits from yourselves as an intro, plus the commissioning sheets.

[multisync]

Thanks for tha advice

Somehow unfortunately we don't feel the clients -all the way up- will accept hand drawn biro'ed plans as anywhere near acceptable. The end customer is in the oil business he expects everything to be done top spec.

Multisync
London

[multisync]

Thanks for the advice

Somehow unfortunately we don't feel the clients -all the way up- will accept hand drawn biro'ed plans as anywhere near acceptable. The end customer is in the oil business he expects everything to be done top spec.(not that he'd ever ever look at them but that's how it works I guess...)

Multisync
London

[eggs]

Suggest you give Daikin a call(or Mitsi).

Or Tosh....
Yep good advice. Let your chosen wholsaler/manufacturer design it for you. If you have a good trading history with them they will gladly help out us small guys. Chances are they will allready know of the project.
If you do design it yourself, check your "professional indemnity" cover on your insurance. Just in case .

Cheers

Eggs

[multisync]

WE will ensure the manufacturer(?) is involved with the layout,selection, pipe scheme and controls etc
However they won't do full building drawings or 'as is' plans and this is where we are needing assistance

Multisync
London

[Peter_1]

Take once contact with ObiWan on this forum. You can do perhaps something together.

[The Viking]

As you specifically named VRV, I assume that we are talking Daikin...

When it comes to designing VRV systems, the guys at Daikin is really helpful, so will the other manufacturers be if you are talking about VRF (But bear in mind that non of them accept design responsibility!!!).
They will spec their VRV/VRF systems for you, including pipe sizes and schematic pipe layout.

When it comes to the drawings, follow the advice above and hand draw on existing printouts but, instead of giving it back to the customer, send it to a professional draughts man (preferable with the original CAD file). It will cost £400-£1k depending on the job but is well worth it. (If you have problems finding one, send me a PM and I will give you the name of the lady we used to use)

Finally,
Make sure that you are covering yourself, I know of several guys that gone down the pan over their first larger VRV/VRF install.

Good luck.

[frank]

We have just been asked to quote a 150k VRV install. The M&E main contractor has asked for complete design and build with spec and full drawings. They also want 'as is' drawings done after too..

We don't have anything or anyone who can do this (although we said "of course!!" of course) does anyone here have a lead who can produce the drawings for us..and what the fee might be?

Multisync
London

If you are only 'Quoting' for this job, why do they want drawings?

Have they produced a spec? What is your design based on? - Room Data Sheets? Occupancy loads?

So many questions.

[multisync]

As you specifically named VRV, I assume that we are talking Daikin...

When it comes to designing VRV systems, the guys at Daikin is really helpful, so will the other manufacturers be if you are talking about VRF (But bear in mind that non of them accept design responsibility!!!).
They will spec their VRV/VRF systems for you, including pipe sizes and schematic pipe layout.

When it comes to the drawings, follow the advice above and hand draw on existing printouts but, instead of giving it back to the customer, send it to a professional draughts man (preferable with the original CAD file). It will cost £400-£1k depending on the job but is well worth it. (If you have problems finding one, send me a PM and I will give you the name of the lady we used to use)

Finally,
Make sure that you are covering yourself, I know of several guys that gone down the pan over their first larger VRV/VRF install.

Good luck.

VRV in the same way as my Hoover is a Henry.. That aside it is between the usual suspects.

The rest of the post is spot on

Thanks

Multisync
London

[multisync]

If you are only 'Quoting' for this job, why do they want drawings?

Have they produced a spec? What is your design based on? - Room Data Sheets? Occupancy loads?

So many questions.

We haven't seen a thing, however part of the 'pre tender' is the ability to 'do' all this stuff if successful

Multisync
London

[Makeit go Right]

Wow, up to you how you approach this tender, Multisync, but spending out half a grand (plus a great deal of other input) just to quote a job is a bit rich.

(For me, unless it is a negotiated job where your order is assured, I wouldn't want to spend out all that time and cash, and then just give it away in a competitive tendering scenario. No way, Jos é!)

[yinmorrison]

You have had sound advice from most posts however the question you ask is someone to do the Drawings and this is probably the easy one to deal with.What I would ask you is who are the M&E Contractors,who are the Main Contractors, what are the conditions of Contract,are the Building Drawings available in acad format,is Professional Indemnity Insurance required,what are the payment terms.I could go on but basically I would not take this one any further until I knew the answers to them.Past experience tells me that this could be a can of worms especially if it is a PPI Project.If I get invloved in this type of Project now I employ a M&E Consultant who carries the can.Even The suppliers will not provide the PI Insurance that may be required.Of course I could be wrong and you are dealing with well known and respected customers in which case you could just get Daikin or Spaceair to come up with the design/spec and employ a self emplyed draffy to do the Drawings.