Help, advice needed.

[josewick]

I am no expert here so I need someof your expertise advice.!!

I have a double door Williams Fridge 7 years old which was previously owned by an established company who checked all electrical appliance annually. So, I can say the fridge was well looked after.

All of the sudden it has packed up, I heard a pop and saw a spark at the back of the compressor. So I opened the case and had a good looked and find that the overload was "overloaded and burnt", Replced it and other burnt wires as well. It doesn't want to fire up. It clicks every 20 seconds but the compressor doesn't want to fire up. Electric is ok as far as I am concerned. I put a multimeter across the capacitor (hope it was that problem) and it reads 100 micro farads which says 64 on the case. I presume that doesn't make much difference but I am not sure on where ot start. I had one engineer round who suggested a new compressor but I don't know if he is just trying to sell me a new one.

Help, much appreciated if you guys can advise.

regards

Joe

[rbartlett]

if it's the correct relay and wired correctly then it's a stiff compressor for sure..probably seized.

cheers

richard

[josewick]

i haven't changed any other items apart from that so called "compressor overload" gadget and looks same as the blown one.

I can see that working and trying to get the compressor going, but compressor doesn't want to work..

Is there anyway I can check it is really the compressor thats faulty??

regards

[rbartlett]

things that will prevent a compressor from starting

relay faulty
capacitor faulty

depending upon the compressor -the overload will be a small round unit with a blackwire coming out of the top next to a spade connector -this is called a klixon

the wire goes to the compressor on the top round pin.

the relay fits below onto the bottom two

the capacitor will wire on the relay one on top and one on the side.

or it's a bigger caj type with the electric connections on the top in which case the klixon will be seen but the cap/relay will be in a separate box.

if all the above is correct and the compressor goes bzzzzzzz.dink
(that's my impression of a comprssor going out on it's o/l btw;-)

then it's a stiffy...

sorry but that's as far as it goes..you gan get hard starter kits but these probably won't 'fix' a duffer and if needed then it's likely the comp is on the way out anyway..good money after bad etc..

unless you feel the fridge guy is dodgy get him back to change it..
or else call me ;-)

cheers

richard

[josewick]

thanks for your advise rich.

Yes, the fridge guy don't look too honest in some aspects, hence I thought I will locate the problem myself.

It is that klixon i have changed and i know its a new working one.

Going to the capacitor, if i can get 100 micro farad out of what its specified (64 micro), then i guess thats ok too.

And now leaving 2 possibility, Relay and Compressor.

With the relay, I haven't heard any clicking (quick taps) so that will seem to be the problem of that... may be???

the compressor doesn't go bzzzzzzz.dink I don't think. I will double check now, but my impression of the symptom is the kilxon keeps ticking every 20 seconds or so and not going anyway. Compressor hasn't even started or tried to started.

I will let you know extacly what it does in a minute after i have checked it out

Regards

Joe

[josewick]

it doesn't look too good.. the exact description as follow,

The relay has a coil like thing on it and i don't hear any clicks whatsoever (unlike relay in a box that i can see the contacts moving.) anyway, the kilxon has a spark on the top and causes a noise (ding) as the compressor goes out (I guess thats the function of overload) . I hear the compressor tries to start and feel it vibrating a little and stop.

Correct me if i am wrong... ITS THE COMPRESSOR.

So do we get a new ones or get it reconditioned or what???

regards

Joe

[Latte]

Well it looks like you have done everything possible & it is the compressor. Now the desision !!!!. Compressors on them are easy enough to do but what ou have to think is WHY as it seized.
Is there a service port on there, if not put in a tap valve just to have a smell of the gas or see some oil. What gas is it on, If R134a then most engineers on this site will let you know of the problems associated with cooked systems and oil blocking the capiliarry. If it is bad at minimum when you change the compressor blow thought the pipework with OFN to clear it out and change the drier. As far as new or recon pot are, i think you will probably only get new units, what make is he compressor and i should be able to tell you whats available.

[josewick]

rdocwra

well. this is what is on the compressor.. See if you know where to get one roughly how much

1510 96F10 CAE4440 Y R134A
23662311 In3a Id15A
L'UNITE HERMETIQUE SA LIC. TECUMSEH

that is it now..

much appreciated fro prompt reply.

regards

[Abe]

Josewick

Change the compressor
As u said fridge is 7 years old.
Youve had a decent life out of it
Get a qualified guy to do the job
Do not attempt it yourself
Good luck

[Latte]

The Compressor is redaly available (SPELLING ???)
HRP stock them pt 430471 List price £128.
Obviously on top of that you have gas, drier, labour & consumable charges (reclaim ect).
As Aiyub said, Get someone qualified if you are not sure
R134a Is a strange gas, it can catch you out with blocked lines, there are many threads about it in the forums.
7 years is a good life of a compressor, especially if it unit has been in a hot environment eg Kitchen.
All the best whatever you decide

Raymond

[Chinua]

Josewick,

From your post some how I do not think you are a Refrigeration Engineer. Please go and get someone in that is qualified to do the job, you need specail tool to carry out refrigeation work along with year of experience. PLEASE DO NOT GO DOWN THE DIY ROOT it will only cost you more money and you guys on here should now better you are putting engineers out of a job who have train for years.

Chinua

[josewick]

oh no! thats not my intention at all of doing the job myself....

I just want to learn a little more and making sure that my engineer is not going to tell me a fairy tale about my fridge... Don't get me wrong there are lots of honest ones about but i just don't know who is.... so on a safe side, I know roughly whats going to cost and involved, it can't go very far then....

Like if i know its going to be just to replace the compressor, i will expect the bill to be around £250 and not £500.......

But thanks so much for all the info and help guys.....

regards

[FreezerGeezer]

Sorry to dissilusion you, josewick, but I'd expect it to be closer to the £500 if you get a good bloke on the job!

[Peter_1]

Now do know that all it does is switch back and forth the start and run power supply to make it run backwards. Switch the Start and the Run wire and make it run backwards for a few seconds. The put it back to run forward.
Does this make sense?

[mrchatts]

Wow! FreezerGeezer you must get paid well. Oh I see Your from London, up here in this neck of the woods £350 tops!

josewick, I would go for changing the compressor but make sure your condenser is in good nick first, Grease can do alot of damage.

[FreezerGeezer]

Well mrchatts, my thinking is like this:

compressor list £128. So you put 50% on, and it's near £200. Presume it comes charged with oil.
Assuming a burnout, or sludged oil, you need new refrigerant. Let's say about 5 Kg, to allow a couple of changes if neccessary. Assuming £4.50/Kg for R134a, that adds £22.50. Reclaim cleaning is another £25. Small OFN about £16. Total so far £255.50
Then there's your travel. Let's assume 50ppm, and assume that you rack up 100 miles on the job for £50. Then you have a day's labour, at £30/hr for £300.
So there you are - already over the £500 mark. No doubt you won't do 100 miles for the job, and you may not allow a full day's labour. Or maybe you don't charge milage. But however you look at it, it's going to be the thick end of £500 to do the job properly.

I'm not actually responsible for raising quotes where I work, but the above looks like a reasonable estimate to me. You may all fall about laughing if you like!

I agree with needing to check the condenser out. Of course, this would add a little to your costs!

[Abe]

At £500.00 you will lose the job
Compressor 130.00
Filter 15.00
Gas 25.00
Spares Total 175.00
Labour 100.00
Misc 50.00
Total 325.00


Ps Manufacturers give you a lousy 150.00 to replace a compressor!!!

[frank]

Wow

5kg of R134a for a Williams fridge! Looks like I'm in the wrong game!

[frank]

Ayb

Wish I could get £150 to replace a compressor!

[josewick]

i have a quote now for 200 plus VAT... Can't comment on the job but will let you know once its been done. I used him on a recommandation.... We will see. Job is to replace the faulty compressor for a new one , of course all the other bits and pcs to go with it as well.

Joe

[Abe]

200 is not too bad a price
on a Williams i think will be a 1/4 hp compressor
if its a two door a 1/2 Hp compressor which is a lot more expensive Le Unite Hermetique
Use right compressor, either HBP or LBP depending on application
R134, fridge will need less then half a KG of gas
between 200- 250 about fair price
remind him to change filter and also put a shraeder access valve on compressor
will take around 3 hours to do job properly
essential your condenser coil is clean, if it got grease put in a new condensing unit rather then just a compressor, or have condensor coil cleaned throughly.
Ask engineer to make sure stats, timer all working perfectly