Refrigeration Electrical panel design

[Solair]

Hello all,
I have seen some high spec refrigeration panels due to my past experience working as a pipe fitter. Mainly supermarket and industrial designs.
How difficult would it be for an electrician with no prior experience in refrigeration panel design and assembly to actually manufacture one to suit a large supermarket pack system ?.
Many Thanks.

[Electrocoolman]

Are you talking about designing or simply wiring these up to somebody else's design?

There are very different skillsets involved.

To design a panel you need to have a thorough understanding of all the control functions, system protection as well as motor starting requirements. I.e. the 'big picture' and being able to think the system operation through logically.

These days you are also liable to be into PLCs and communication systems for remote monitoring and data logging.

[Solair]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes I mean designing the panel and wiring the necessary components.

The electrician would be experienced in electrical installation work involving home electrics and be familiar with the IEE wiring regulations.
Is knowledge of refrigeration necessary ?.













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[Grizzly]

ABSOLUTELY YES!
How can you wire in safety control circuits ECT if they are not understood.
Not forgetting Control Strategies and say defrost operation and termination
ETC. ETC.
Sorry to sound abrupt but without fridge knowledge it would be difficult or maybe impossible to get it right!
Grizzly

[The Viking]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes I mean designing the panel and wiring the necessary components.

The electrician would be experienced in electrical installation work involving home electrics and be familiar with the IEE wiring regulations.
Is knowledge of refrigeration necessary ?.

In my experience, that would be like asking the chap in the local MOT garage to design and build a F1 car...

He might succeed but the likelihood is that it will take a lot of time and re-designs due to errors.

[nike123]

Is knowledge of refrigeration necessary ?.

Yes , it is necesary!

To design a panel you need to have a thorough understanding of all the control functions, system protection as well as motor starting requirements. I.e. the 'big picture' and being able to think the system operation through logically.

These days you are also liable to be into PLCs and communication systems for remote monitoring and data logging.

[nike123]

In my experience, that would be like asking the chap in the local MOT garage to design and build a F1 car...

He might succeed but the likelihood is that it will take a lot of time and re-designs due to errors.

It is not that hard anymore with new controlers like Carel
http://www.carel.com/carelcom/web/en...igerazione.jsp

But it still need programing from someone who knows what is going on.

[monkey spanners]

I've seen many domestic electricians strugle with the wiring up of a single condensing unit...

A friend of mine is a sparky, he mainly works on shop refits, rewiring anything from a small office up to supermarkets. I have a lot of respect for him. Recently though he called me in to look at a swiming pool heatpump system that needed wiring to an oil fired boiler.
It needed a switched live to bring on the boiler and pump and also a 5 minute run on time for the pump to cool the boiler down and prevent it tripping out on over temperature, nothing complex, but it had him scratching his head.

Having said this, i couldn't wire up a house let alone a supermarket

The best advice i had when i went self employed was "stick to what you are good at"

Jon

[Solair]

Thanks for all the replies.
Makes it pretty clear.

[hendry]

Hi solair,

yes, to wire is not difficult.
the essence is in the design.

as i learn, i must
1] know the operation sequence;
2] sizing of startor i.e. A/T, S/D, DOL etc;
3] circuit breaker sizing i.e. kA rating & breaking current;
4] total connected load & maximum demand;
5] type of relays;
6] TOR;
etc.

these days i provide PLC along with startor, it make things easier than before.

Hendry, on wesak day holiday.

[SloFuse]

The Electrician has to have knowledge of control wiring. a control wiring electrician can design and wire any system . The best control wiring electricians will figure all controls purpose in system than wire accordingly . The best electricians will call manufactures of controls to be sure.