'To be' or 'Not to be' (17th edition)

[Billy Ray]

To all,

your views & opinions are welcome......

Whilst fixing a electrical fault on a resonable size control panel recently (low temp freezer store with 4 x copeland 30HP comps) in a processing factory, the site electrician asked if all 'fridge engineers' were suitablbly electrically qualified & would we be taking the 17th edition update course.

Now many of my collegues are not electrically trained as such (City & Guilds i mean).

The question i pose is 'Should we be 17th edition sparkys' to work on electrical control gear?

This could be splits?, VRV or 100kW + drive motors etc?

Regards Billy Ray

[Tony]

Billy Ray,

you don't have to have 17th Edition qualification - that being said, everything you do electrically has to be done to the 17th Edition regulations from July 2008, ignorance of the regs is no excuse.

So therefore you need to know what the regs say.

[Contactor]

I have had similar encounters with electricians stomping about and bleating on about the regs. As a result I went on the part p course and have just done the 17th edition course. later this year I will be doing the inspection and testing course. I am looking forward to telling the next site electrician who starts on about 'the regs' to shove off. However, I now realise how little I knew and would agree with Tony, if you cant work and test to the regs, you could end up in trouble.

[Brian_UK]

I don't know the answer to that one Billy Ray but I wonder where the 'split' comes if there is one.

Is the control panel classed as a single component as far as the electrician is concerned. By that I mean when the panel was supplied and erected did the electrician bring in the mains power cable to the isolator and say "There you go mate, all done" or did he then perform a full operation test of the panel to ensure that it complies with the Regulations etc.

Likewise was your 'fault' something that would have been found by an electrician or would it need a fridgey/electrician to find it.

[Billy Ray]

Thanks all for your thoughts,

I'm with you Brian, not knowing where the 'split' is between fridge engineer & electrician.

The problem was a 'welded-in' defrost contactor which i know the site electrician would have no idea how to diagnose, its a fridge engineers job to fix!!

Generally, most sparkys know about distribution & power supplies etc.

I always consider the fridge to be a specalised piece of kit & explain that we look after the plant from the control panel. The electricians job is to get power to the panel & 'we do the rest'. Thats where i consider the 'split' to be.

Billy Ray

[Brian_UK]

Well that makes two of us Billy, now to convince the others

[Contactor]

There is no 'split'.

[malcoa]

Thanks all for your thoughts,

I'm with you Brian, not knowing where the 'split' is between fridge engineer & electrician.

The problem was a 'welded-in' defrost contactor which i know the site electrician would have no idea how to diagnose, its a fridge engineers job to fix!!

Generally, most sparkys know about distribution & power supplies etc.

I always consider the fridge to be a specalised piece of kit & explain that we look after the plant from the control panel. The electricians job is to get power to the panel & 'we do the rest'. Thats where i consider the 'split' to be.

Billy Ray

to be fair, their are electrical engineers and their are electrical installers-electrical engineers would easily find a welded in contactor-most installers would not find it at all, as far as i'm aware the wiring regs are largely concerned with fixed installations only (wiring from the board upto the equipment/appliance) allthough the regs are referred to for current carrying capacities of wires and circuit protection, nothing else really is due to specialised components being used in machinery or equipment produced around the world and installed in the UK. I think this is where the CE mark comes in

[Contactor]

The whole installation should comply with the regs, to the board or from the board. The appendices list relevant BSEN numbers for circuit components.

[malcoa]

To all,

your views & opinions are welcome......

Whilst fixing a electrical fault on a resonable size control panel recently (low temp freezer store with 4 x copeland 30HP comps) in a processing factory, the site electrician asked if all 'fridge engineers' were suitablbly electrically qualified & would we be taking the 17th edition update course.

Now many of my collegues are not electrically trained as such (City & Guilds i mean).

The question i pose is 'Should we be 17th edition sparkys' to work on electrical control gear?

This could be splits?, VRV or 100kW + drive motors etc?

Regards Billy Ray

Back to the question, no you dont have to hold the 17th edition cert to work on control gear

[Contactor]

Agreed, neither the regs nor the certificate are statutory.

[Billy Ray]

Contactor / Malcoa,

your views reassure me, & are in line with mine.

I will know research more the regs, to ensure that my practices (which are generally high standard) follow the 'laid down' standards of the up & coming 17th!!

Billy ray

[philfridge]

no no and no

[Brian_UK]

no no and no

Would you care to explain your terse comment ?

[philfridge]

Ok yes i will elaborate the answer to the question is no , you are a fridge engineer not a electrician. So only a new electrical installation needs 17th edition

[Contactor]

Any mods to any circuit should be up to 17th ed. standard.