-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
Or not so well working riggs! lol
Mad, so using your control rig, if it is only a scale model of the real working size, and identical rig with device in place, would there not be changes such as weight of refrigerant and volume of flow that has to be taken into account? Maybe gravity and ambients have effects. ( Assuming these are scale models as i can't see you moving coldrooms to UK on Air N.Z.)
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeref
G,day C.M. Have not been on long this morning, (as you already know;)), so i'm catching up on reading. Got the telescope out to see if Mike "Canada" is there ready to put a sock in my mouth again. Check top of page 2 :D..Mike.
Had to go out and do an honest days work so i was not available for sock putting. Speak, O toothless wonder (as they say, don't shoot me, I'm just the piano man) and I will chime in if I can think of something useful
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
theres no banter in the uk its the northerners and the rest! haha
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
No when the Aussies need a good fridgie, they call in a "Kiwi" lol:D
( always a bit of banter between the 2 countries, a bit like north and south england)
Well you being the southerner(as I), do they b**ch about your sheila's all night, like the double act I get hit with ? :D horse's / donkey's & the private meassages I dont even wanna guess:rolleyes:
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Mike,
The unit is a full size model, could be made bigger, could be made smaller, i would expect the complete widget to be the size of an accumulator (the size that would suit a certain size plant)
The test rigg is basically a water cooled, water chiller. (it is some what easier to control and monitor water on both sides) the actual application is not important, it is only a refrigeration circuit.
Copeland ZB 45 on R134a "Brand new"
The bigger the compression ratio, then it would seem the bigger the increase in performance.
for example (using my clacs which could be completely wrong!!) an Ac improvement would only 7-9% increase max net cooling, verses a LT system upto 55% increase in net cooling. (personally I was looking at it for hot water heat pumps)
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chillerman2006
Well you being the southerner(as I), do they b**ch about your sheila's all night, like the double act I get hit with ? :D horse's / donkey's & the private meassages I dont even wanna guess:rolleyes:
Mate! I no southerner
I was born in BLACKPOOL!
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
install monkey
theres no banter in the uk its the northerners and the rest! haha
Install M, no drama with the Kiwis, they scare us with the face paintings when the two countries compete in football.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
vegas of the north!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
Mate! I no southerner
I was born in BLACKPOOL!
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
Mate! I no southerner
I was born in BLACKPOOL!
Was referring to current location - now I know I am a lonely southerner ;)
But then again no - I shall ask my Aussie friends if I can gain an honary (cant spell) membership :D
I should be ok soon - punch & judy's bed time !
:D
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
your not wrong there ill be signing off in about 15 mins.am i punch or judy haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chillerman2006
Was referring to current location - now I know I am a lonely southerner ;)
But then again no - I shall ask my Aussie friends if I can gain an honary (cant spell) membership :D
I should be ok soon - punch & judy's bed time !
:D
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
install monkey
your not wrong there ill be signing off in about 15 mins.am i punch or judy haha
It was a mixed referall bud - including the seaside town of blackpool :D
As for who is who - you can fight over the glove puppets between you's:D
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Hey, what about us Canuks where the suns still shining. Oh well, maybe i'll put a steak on the BBQ and have a beer if you are all going.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MikeHolm
Hey, what about us Canuks where the suns still shining. Oh well, maybe i'll put a steak on the BBQ and have a beer if you are all going.
Argh ! Mike I'm 'lee marving' & your got the steaks out, its a tough draw
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Attachment 7135
A scabby drawing of possible types of widget parts
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
After my lovely dinner (without the sword play) I'll be back an ponder the widget some more. Cheers, CM
-
2 Attachment(s)
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Both together
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
drawing of possible types of widget parts
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
We have proven that the flash gas (just after TEV) in a normal system has little benefit to the net cooling effect.
By having an indermidiate pressure, we retain the mass of liquid required to meet the refrigeration load, plus we have vapour at pressure higher than the suction, this vapour has the potential to do some work (chosing the words wisely I hope, as not to influence your thought patterns) How would you then determine the work available and how would this be applied, remembering that at the end all streams will pass through the compressor.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Where is the TEV sensing bulb mounted?
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Re written Gents banter on here facts only on the other please
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
I normally use the term expansion device, just used TEV for short, but if was a TEV, then i would presume at the evap. So your next aargument is that we will have some superheat, therefore the flash gas would indeed slightly increase the net cooling effect.
For simplistic purposes I am just using saturation points (subcooling, superheat will of course effect what happens within the system, as it always does)
On the other hand, if the widget has a whole (this how i invisage it) is mounted next to the evap, then maybe the bulb could be mounted after the widget to ensure a fully wetted coil.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
So your next aargument is that we will have some superheat, therefore the flash gas would indeed slightly increase the net cooling effect.
No, apparently that would be your next argument. My next argument would be something entirely different.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
No, apparently that would be your next argument. My next argument would be something entirely different.
very witty,
Looking forward to that one coming.
If the thing works, and we can prove it, there are plenty of other considerations that to be needed to be accounted for. (many I already know, likely some that i do not) But unless I can get independent proof of concept and some level of possible commercial practiabilty (can be bought, sold and installed for the right price, I believe this side is possible) then other considerations are not worth looking at.
I have spent the last year working on this (not full time) as much for fun as commercial gain. I am presently stumped! hit the wall! in the dark! can not see the wood for trees. Hence bring out into the public eye.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
As it happens, I have been studying the very same phenomena... although my widget is very different from your widget. :)
What I was looking for is the opposing forces that bring stability, the zig that balances the zag, the ying for the yang.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
On the other hand, if the widget has a whole (this how i invisage it) is mounted next to the evap, then maybe the bulb could be mounted after the widget to ensure a fully wetted coil.
Flooded Evap ! even more cooling ?
How would the mixed compressor inlet vapour work out ?
Would an accumalator need to be used or would this have an adverse affect ?
R's chillerman
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
As it happens, I have been studying the very same phenomena... although my widget is very different from your widget. :)
What I was looking for is the opposing forces that bring stability, the zig that balances the zag, the ying for the yang.
Lloyds Widget Revealed ???
We need more like this to get the brain ticking ! :)
R's chillerman
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chillerman2006
Lloyds Widget Revealed ???
I don't think so. :)
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
As it happens, I have been studying the very same phenomena... although my widget is very different from your widget. :)
What I was looking for is the opposing forces that bring stability, the zig that balances the zag, the ying for the yang.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chillerman2006
Lloyds Widget Revealed ???
We need more like this to get the brain ticking ! :)
R's chillerman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
I don't think so. :)
Well thats a shame as I have been working on the same project by the sounds of it !
Whats your position on production ?
This could be a race to the finish now,
On your marks
Get set
Go
:D
R's chillerman
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
I don't think so. :)
Well I hope you can use thread to help with your project,
hers some more to help you along the way.
Vortex tube to further sub cool the liquid, and to use of joul thompson to reduce compressor SH, whilst increasing mass flow, of course will need high side intercoler.
a simple turbo charger, would do the trick
You could use a an ejector and go internal sonic an elevate the exit pressure above that of the motive force, recondense and re-introduce into the liquid line.
there are good few other options but just best suited to very stable steady systems.
hope this help for a starter.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chillerman2006
Well thats a shame as I have been working on the same project by the sounds of it !
Whats your position on production ?
This could be a race to the finish now,
On your marks
Get set
Go
:D
R's chillerman
Hot and heavy competition seems unlikely. The only person I ever compete with is myself.
My widget is on a back burner. In addition to the material resources involved, real testing requires a level of self-discipline which I decidedly lack... and bringing it to market is even less appealing to me. Brainstorming is the fun part. The rest of it is a nightmare. And I'm retired.
So... back burner it is.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
My widget is on a back burner. In addition to the material resources involved, real testing requires a level of self-discipline which I decidedly lack... and bringing it to market is even less appealing to me. Brainstorming is the fun part. The rest of it is a nightmare. And I'm retired.
How true.....
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
Hot and heavy competition seems unlikely. The only person I ever compete with is myself.
My widget is on a back burner. In addition to the material resources involved, real testing requires a level of self-discipline which I decidedly lack... and bringing it to market is even less appealing to me. Brainstorming is the fun part. The rest of it is a nightmare. And I'm retired.
So... back burner it is.
I am only teasing Mate
A time served Jedi Master would run rings round me :) Retired or not,
I just thought with all this thunder you's could spare me some
R's chillerman
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
As they say in Australia, no worries, mate.
I do what I love, love what I do... and life is good. :)
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
C.M, you are burning the candle at both ends. Don't want you to have an accident at work from lack of sleep :off topic:.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Hello All, I think I shall ponder this in the days and weeks to come. If I had 3 stomachs, I could truly ruminate on it. My work load will decrease in 6 weeks or so for the winter so there will be more time but I will watch this thread with much interest.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
Try this very basic device.
A piece of 7/8 pipe 6' long, stick your oxy/act tip in on end (middlish if possible) leave this end still open to the air, turn on oxygen (really you should use nitrogen to be safe) but it is the tip that is important. (motive force)
What you should see is that air is pulled into the pipe at one end (suction) and quite a lot flow coming out of the other end. ( alot more flow that just the oxygen flowing from the tip)
Just reading now on page 3..what you describe MF is the working principle of a ramjet engine.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mad fridgie
Now The vapour side of the vessel?
Is this vapour at a higher or lower pressure than that at the evap outlet. (and what would its properties be chef's question)
The vapor is apparently different as I read the lower answers and my brain is twisting on this one. May I ask to explain this a little bit further.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gary
As they say in Australia, no worries, mate.
I do what I love, love what I do... and life is good. :)
Hi Gary
I should hope so to, you have earned it !
& still have time to help us learner's,
in between basking in that glorious Florida weather,
R's chillerman
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Such an interesting thread during these busy days. MF, your schematic at the end explained a little bit more about the intermediate pressure. Have to read back now. Will continue reading later.
I also had a similar widget about increasing evaporator capacity with 0K SH and making the needed SH elsewhere with an additional coil which made also a higher SH then needed to use this to heat water. I think I once made a sketch I've send to DesA . But just like you, there must be something wrong in my thinking process.
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeref
C.M, you are burning the candle at both ends. Don't want you to have an accident at work from lack of sleep :off topic:.
Hi Mike,
am ok bud, glad someone cares, (violins) argh !
I prefer the night shift here, much friendly-er
The day shift, keeps picking on me & my equestrian friends
R's chillerman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MikeHolm
Hello All, I think I shall ponder this in the days and weeks to come. If I had 3 stomachs, I could truly ruminate on it. My work load will decrease in 6 weeks or so for the winter so there will be more time but I will watch this thread with much interest.
Hi Mike
mine already has, so if there is any more of them 'joe blakes' going spare, I'm on the next plane !
R's chillerman
-
Re: Carters Widget Revealed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter_1
I also had a similar widget about increasing evaporator capacity with 0K SH and making the needed SH elsewhere with an additional coil which made also a higher SH then needed to use this to heat water. I think I once made a sketch I've send to DesA . But just like you, there must be something wrong in my thinking process.
Hi Peter
not necessarily thinking wrong, in fact
from what I read all the great minds here are 'singing to the same hym sheet'
In more ways than one !
R's chillerman