in this time, are the atmosferic condensers a good choise for refrigeration industry?
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in this time, are the atmosferic condensers a good choise for refrigeration industry?
What do you mean by atmospheric condensers?
If you mean evaporative condensers, yes, they make very good sense. You have to reject a certain amount of heat to make your process run.
There must be more to your question, if you will elaborate, I can try to help you more.
i am sorry yes it is "atmospheric condensers", and my question is because i heard that when you have enogh space this condensers are better than the evaporative, because the easiest maintenance and lower price.
And sorry about my english :)
Hi Ben,
by atmospheric I think you mean air cooled as opposed to evaporative condensers.
Evaporative are generally smaller in size but use a lot of water, and scale up depending on water quality.
Air cooled are generally bigger in size depending on design air conditions.
Pricing is probably similar depending on application and weather conditions.
Aircooled fins and tubes deteriorate over time and require regular cleaning as well. So similar maintenance issues.
magoo
If " this time " means summers then atmospheric condensers may not be very useful because water losses will be high in this season, otherwise atmospheric is quite cheap and easy to maintain then evaporative condensers. What is the capacity of condenser ?? give some clues about atmospheric conditions where you will the place the conditions?
I mean to say where you will place the condensers?
In India, I would not use air cooled condensers. Surely would save you a lot of water, but will cost you much more in term of energy consumption when compared to evaporative condensers.
I think atmospheric condenser is different than air cooled condenser . Please correct me if i am wrong
I think what ben1023 may mean is condenser from way back when .
Atmospheric to me or natural draught is like bare tube coils in a large area or tower arrangement .
The tubes are on the sides and in the middle but you can walk in it as its very open .
Usually wooden slats around it to stop water blowing out with wind etc .
At the bottom is a pond or large sump . A water pump supplying sprays distributes water over the tubes and natural draught air cools everything down .
Very large but probably water treatment would be expensive because of volume of water .
perfect ! i fully agree with ranger 1 because according to me atmospheric condenser holds the same explaination. Water treatment as well water losses ,due to high temperature in summers, are two maim problems but these are much cheaper than evaporative condenser .
Ben1023,
I did some research on the condenser you asked about, and to be honest I would not recommend it over an evaporative condenser. I am sure there would be a few applications where it would be practical, but not very many.
And since I have made that statement I will explain why I believe it.
First, both styles require a water spray over the bare tubes. Since the atmospheric condenser relies on natural air movement across its tubes it will have to be larger. That may or may not require a larger pump.
So there is no real benefit as far as the water aspect of the question.
Since the atmospheric condenser does not have any fans or fan motors, it has a reliability advantage.
I believe that advantage is offset by the increased cost of the material used in construction, the addition space required and the lack of operational flexibility.
With the evaporative condenser, you can control your discharge pressure by cycling the fans on and off, cycling the spray water on and off, and running the unit dry with no fans during the winter in the colder climates.
Also your tube bundle will be smaller so your refrigerant charge will be less.
When I first read up on the atmospheric condenser I thought that for areas with limited or erratic electrical power it might be usefull. However the more I thought about it, the less convinced of its utility I became. A condenser might have 25 horsepower in fans, and 7-1/2 in the pumps, which is relatively little when you compare it to the 100-200 horse power the compressor would need. And if your power won't run the condenser it certainly wouldn't run the compressors.
So I really don't see any advantage to using one of the atmospheric condensors. There might be a special application where it would be the answer, but I don't know what that would be.
Hi Ben
My understanding of an atmospheric condenser is the same as Ranger1's.
These condensers were used many years ago and take up a lot of space.
They would be expensive I would think as there would be an enormous amount of pipe involved.
Paul
hi first, thank you to all of you for your time, well the thing is that I was talking with an engineer and he was the person that told me that when you have enough space, the atmospheric condensers are better than the evaporative because whith the evaporative condensers you need a very good maintenance program, thereby you will need more money for keeping the condensers very well, and whith the atmospheric you will need the half or less of manteinance, and this is the half of money, but I was not very sure about this because i haven't read anything about this kind of condensers the only thing is that this condensers are very old but some factories still design them (the atmospheric condensers)
hello
does a dry cooler come into this where u have water cooled condensers pumped outside to large radiators.
these are fine as water treatment keeps tubes of condensers in a closed loop clean but power consumption is higher.
aww
well tanks to all of you for your comments I already have an idea about this theme, but just by finish this could any of you say were could I read about this? I read that McFranklin could find very usefull information about this.
Have you tried searching GOOGLE:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1023
If you have enough open space Atmospheric Cooling tower is good option with power saving. For any water cooled system the water quality need to be maintained.
Bleed off to reduce the TDS build up is important.
I have found very few reference books for refrigeration, especially ammonia refrigeration. One that I have is:
Industrial Refrigeration Handbook
Wilbert F. Stoecker
Date
January 1, 1998
Format
Hardback, 782 pages
ISBN 007061623X / 9780070616233
Basic Refrigeration
by Guy R. King
Pub. Date: November 1990
Publisher: Business News Publishing Company
Format: Paperback, 501pp
ISBN-139780912524276
ISBN: 0912524278
I copied the Stoecker listing from a McGraw-Hills website.
The King title is from Barnes and Noble
I do not know if other book sellers carry the titles, but with the title, author and ISBN number you may be able to procure a copy.
I have and recommend the Industrial Refrigeration Handbook. The edition I have is in SI units with Imperial units in subscript. I understand that there are editions in Imperial units.
Although I have looked at a copy, briefly, of the Basic Refrigeration book but have not read it.
Some of the equipment manufacturers' websites have some information. Of course it will be biased toward their equipment so you have to keep that in mind. Also I don't know how much is available in any language other than English. And most of the manuals tend toward operation of the equipment rather than design.
I would avoid the Modern Refrigeration textbook, it is written to train technicians, which is a different skill set than a designer.
As far as the Google search, I find that in specialized fields the internet leaves a great deal to be desired. I searched for information on a brand of pump, I received links to 14th century French women's shoes, breast milk pumps and other unmentionable things.
Most search engines filter the results by popularity. Ammonia refrigeration is a specialized field, there are not enough of us searching at any given time so we are covered up by the searches for 14th century French women's shoes. (You guys realize that some one looking for the shoes will end up here thinking "How did I end up here?")
well thaks to all of you specially to McFranklin for your recomendations I will try to read in this handbook about this condensers thank you again