Hey Ya'll, This is my first post.
I am wondering if anyone has information or experience with the TK CR-ST 300 MT or the SBIII-CR. What applications are they used for ?
Thanks
Dean
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Hey Ya'll, This is my first post.
I am wondering if anyone has information or experience with the TK CR-ST 300 MT or the SBIII-CR. What applications are they used for ?
Thanks
Dean
Hi WeirCummin;)Quote:
Originally Posted by WeirCummin
I personally do not have expeirence with the Crygencics Co2 units but i can shed light as to what they are used for.
Some tk units use the CR as an assistance to increase capacity mostly found on truck unit applicatrions, basically added cooling during pulldown and betwenn door openings.
The SBIII CR unit does not have a diesel engine as its source of power to heat or cool the compartment, It utilizes propane gas for heat and liquid Co2 as a refrigerant agent.
They are not that popular here where I am from, because liquid Co2 is not found that readily like diesel fuel.
But here are some reasons and applications for CR technolgy
Regulation Changes Are Occurring WorldwideENVIRONMENTAL
- “PIEK” NOISE
Cryogenic technology can provide environmentally friendly climate control product lines which satisfy the customer’s needs in the following segments:
- HACCP
- Inner city grocery or short to medium distance perishable deliveries
- NO Diesel Emissions
I have alot of other information on these specific types of equipment and can share with you in an email.
- NO CFC’s, HCFC’s, or HFC’
- Low Noise
- Rapid Pull-Down
- Low Maintenance Requirements
Regards A-Z
A-Z,
Thanks for your response, I’ll definitely drop ya a line. I was hoping to here from others in Europe or anywhere. From what I here thru Thermo King, the cryogenic systems are very popular in Europe due to fuel prices. Any comment from across the Atlantic or anyone worldwide would be appreciated.
Thanks WC
Hi WeirCummin,
a-z has given you some good technical and sales insights into the cryogenic product range, developed under the direction of Jay Seshadri's Engg team some yrs back. ;)
What I can share with you from here and as I know from participating at various global gatherings during the time product range was being developed.
Overall, from a project standpoint, the range is " released" to market but mostly we consider it on the library shelf waiting for it's time and the market to arrive.
The units work well and have dramatic performance -rapid pulldown times , perhaps several times quicker than even S391 screw equipped SB trailer unit to pull
-29C box on 53ft x 2 inch thin wall trailers even.
What does waiting for it's time to arrive mean ??? as you may know, the systems are open or consuming - the Co2 is released after refrigeration effect, driving various vapour evap motors etc.
For mainstream adoption, ie long distance or intercity useage ....taking a trailer from California to New York, we will need to have literally a " gas station" network in place , in same way as world will need hydrogen stations for future planned H2 automobiles. Several refill would be needed on that coast to coast trip for example.
For urban or distribuution deliveries .... ie say delivery vans and smaller rigid trucks ,,,, say around Chicago suburbs and downtown ( prototypes to Jewel Foods), then companies that who have their own Co2 plant and storage tanks can and are adopting cryogenic units more readily.
On environmental queries, it can be answered that this is not " new" C02 but recycled or recovered as byproducts of processes such as brewing, baking, soft drinks industries etc etc.
In Scandanavia, good adoption due to heavy interest and committment from NorskHydro who are strong proponents of the technology with TK local dealers.
hope this helps a bit to explain the 'business case' -end of it.
kind regards :) :)
T-P
Keep in mind that these CR unit systems will use quite abit of Co2 during initial pull down, but when box reache at setpoint temp range it uses very little to maintain, I think they are a great alternative to environment issues, but as it has been said several time in this thread, you cannot find a Co2 fill station on every street corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by thermo prince
For the customers that haul produce and need heat in the winter months when ambients fall below 30f ro 0c degrees, you will need to have heat, and its source is propane, again you cannot find propane fill sation on every corner but they are more popular then Co2 in those regards.
I hope that extra tid bit helps.
A-Z
We have about 15 ST-CR MT's in Finland doing city distribution. In Sweden they have over 100 units already. Actually the very first production ST-CR MT's were delivered to Finland. Those were equipped with CR-300 evaporators (old CB-evap), but new one are with combination 200+200 or most commonly 200+100.
Cooling capacity is huge; imagine of having 2 SL-400's in one truck body; that's about 18kW's @ -20C.
It seems you must get focused on door switches, driver trainings and door curtains in order to get down the co2 consumtion figures. With wrong usare and/or poorly equipped body the consumption can get high.
ST-CR uses truck engine coolant for heating and we have had no problems with the heating capacity @ -20C ambients (about 4.5 kW / evaporator).
If you have any questions I try to answer.
Regards,
nova
Good post Nova, I never thought to mention those smaller ST CR units that use the vehilcle engine coolant, as the source of heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by nova
Since we have talked about two out of the three CR sytemtems might as well bring the third one in....
There is also The CR hybrid, using Co2, this system integrates into a diesel powered unit, and is used to supplememnt pulldown and multiple door openings for quicker recovery, this system would be a compliment to the self powered, truck units.
Below is a link to the SBIII CR animation.
this has graphic illistration to the filling procedure, cooling cycle heat cycle and the Co2 vapor exhaust theat drives the fan.
I will leave up for only a couple days.
Going Once... Going Twice.... Gone!!!!!!!
A-Z
Has anyone here gotten acquainted with the SBIII CR program in the link in prior post?
Just a notice that the link will be voided tommorow.
Going once, going twice.............
A-Z
A-Z
Thanks 4 the animation, I downloaded it as I figured it would vaporize the same way that the multitemp flow animation did. I have to admit, I’ve been trolling. The company I work 4 has 5 cryogenic straight trucks, w/16’ boxes 4 that are true multitemp & 1 that we pulled the rear ST300 out of and are running a blower/drawtube w/ t-stat. As has been stated above, there pulled down is incredible. The problem that I see is that in the Texas summer w/ high temp & humidity , coupled w/ the lack strip curtains. ( Don’t get me started on the strip curtains.) These 5 units can use can consume 10k pounds of Co2 a day in the summer & that doesn’t include the 20 percent loss every time a tank is filled.
WC
Glad you got a chance to fuss with the program animation.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeirCummin
As mentioned before i do not have real world expeirence with Cryo Co2 sytems, but understand what they are and what they do.
I do not have any fleets here with CR system, but sounds like you do.
Does your fleet that your work with have a filling station onsite, and what do you do for refilling the system if off property?
Do you have a supplier that brings liquid Co2 or do you have process system on site which allows you to make?
I cant imagine what kind of compressor, and or pressures that may be involved to make the stuff.:eek:
A-Z
We do have a fill station onsite & yes it is a supplier that brings in the liquid Co2. Being the @ the bottom of food chain in my Co.(just the refer tech:rolleyes:) It is my understanding that TK owns the storage & fill station & all billing 4 the deliveries goes 2 TK
WC
First off dont sell yourself short as being at the bottom of the food chain bla bla bla and just a reefer tech, bla bla bla.:( with out you and the other refridge techs and engineer in the world to fix the stuff when it brakes, the world could not carry on as it does in the same manner we are used to today.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by WeirCummin
Very interesting about tk handling the Co2 stuff, this all is so new and green, I dont believe there is alot of room for error when messing around with this stuff,
Off the top of my head i think liquid Co2 has a boiling point less than -200 degrees below 0, my god man do you know how liquid refrigerant 404a feels to the skin:eek: another 260 degrees f we will be at absolute zero, this means no energy. molecules no longer move. heat no longer exsists.
If this stuff was mishandled or was portrayed as dangerouse there may not be good strong market for this new world approach.
Education process needs to be implimented field trials need to be done, globally to asesss the final story and direction to follow.
Some day we will have filling stations easily found everywhere, but we need a demand for them first.
Once the technolgy has proven it effectiveness in value, more customers will demand the technology more filling stations will be employed, and the next thing you know its like another day at the office.
A-Z
A-Z
By no means am I selling myself short:D I just don’t know what the agreement between our company and TK is, when it comes to the cost per pound of Co2.
Yes liquid Co2 is cold, very cold. The fill station is well designed with good safety’s and as long as ya follow the fill procedures everything is good:cool:
WC
:);):)
A-z
Hi A-Z, I'm not able to check it from home, because I use Mac. But if this is the same animation that I have in my work PC, it's made by TK. Now, I don't wanna be any iNteRneT pOliCe, but I would be careful on what programs / documents / information putting freely available here. There's many ppl here working for TK/Carrier/Whatever and for sure they don't like seeing their internal confidential material shared here (nor the mods of the site).Quote:
Originally Posted by absolute-zero
But if this is not the animation I referred, then I apologize. Anyway just a little heads up for all of us. :)
Regards
Nova
Hi Nova,Quote:
Originally Posted by nova
No not confidentiol, but simply a training tool, or simulator that demeonstrates how a Co2 system fills and operates.
I look all over S/W for copyrights and or distribution laws and viloations. I only share basic info that I have and would never try to resell in efforts to make a profit off someone elses handiwork. I certainlly do not want to get into hot water, and as well not make RE liable for any action as well.
I understand the fine line between sharing confidentiol information and educating those with questions, and desire to learn and apply proper service practices.
I can understand and see why alot of dealers would not be enclined to share technical training info posted, or available as this sometimes causes fear of losing some potentiol service work, But in those same respectfull regards, there are others out there servicing, aside from dealer networks.
In the end i think both TTC giants want there product lines reperesented in a positive manner, through sales, service, and aftermarket parts.
At the end of the Day the customer is King, They are the purchasers of the TTC equipment, they are the purchasers of parts, mainteance contracts, The TK and CTC groups need to back through soild comprehensive warrnaties. Why not have techs out there ready and capable of performing service
It is a win win for all parties involved, god knows the world is short handed of these unique individuals, who knows maybe some day the techs i train will be good enough to work for the CTC or TK dealer or Corp, if the indvidual elects to pursue a career in that direction.
Regards A-Z
PS, yes it is TKs handiwork.Quote:
Originally Posted by nova
I took the virtual animator link down last night, as this was taking up some space and bandwidth, sorry you missed it.:(
Nova
Now that we have opened the door to infringement issues or potentiols,
Imagine if we were able to share the ability to change and or rewrite flasload software files or alter in such a way that met specific issues.
I of course would never disclose that information as this may cause techs around the world to scratch head, and bung every 3 seconds.:D
But it can quite easily be done.
A-Z
Well, I see that this has gone out into left field and it’s not a homerun. I was hoping to converse with some techs that have hands on experience with TK cryogenics.
Nova
Good to see U use a Mac. I hope that if you have children, they’ve got Ipods. My wife has been with Apple for years now, Let’s keep the stock and options price up:D
Now, as for the Co2. I’m going to be careful here, never no when the “net police” are going to swoop down like a TX vulture:eek: It’s my understanding that in the US, our company is the only one with cryogenics. Where then does the technical support come from for a technician like me, looking to improve the efficiency, and the bottom line of these units. Maybe it’s “The world wide library“, thought I was there:rolleyes: I’m gonna leave it at that.
A-Z
About that metaphor. I and the “religious right” are appalled that you would teach your children anything but abstinence;)My god man, In this day and age of teen pregnancies and STD’s why in the world do you think education “risk management” will work:cool:
Searching the WWW, you must have a mighty large spoon. Good thing, hate to see the bottom of the pot get burned . Thanks for pointing the way forward,
Sea ya on the other side:)
Best regards to all
WC
There are techs here that drop in periodically with real world exp in this paticular area of TTC. Im sure they will pop in and leave a comment of there exp.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeirCummin
:eek:Ka-KAAAA.... Ka-KAAAA..... Ka-KAAAAA.....:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by WeirCummin
Please note only strictly for metaphor!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by WeirCummin
I have a ways to go before that will be a problem for me as my kids are younger than 3yrs, I still have many years to mold there little impressionable minds...:) Note i also have redited and removed all that rubbish as it really had nothing to do with the other in comparison.
Another note of advise: becarefull with the "religion right" thing, as this may bring on the big internet :eek:TX Ka-Kaaaa... Ka-Kaaaaa...Ka-Kaaaa...:eek:
Talk to you later.
Regards A-Z
Hi, Newbie here, :cool: if TK would design a CO2 reclaming machine that would be small enough to put on the exhaust port, these units would be the only way to go
These units use so much CO2 they are not cost effective as of yet (BETA at its best) my suggestion would be use some technology that has already been perfected, rather than relying on a fixed orfices with solonoids to turn them on and off to reduce consumption, a trusty TXV designed for this application would make sense to me solonoid for off/on TXV for regulation of coil temp. This would greatly reduce the consumption while allowing quick pulldown, the coil temp could be monitored and controlled by the micro, just my 2 cents