Hi, :)
fitted this compressor to a water chiller a couple of weekends ago, what do you think about Sabroe recips.
Regards. Andy.
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Hi, :)
fitted this compressor to a water chiller a couple of weekends ago, what do you think about Sabroe recips.
Regards. Andy.
always had the run around getting sabroe parts, found mycom much easier to deal with. easier to work on too
Hi Andy
Where's the job? I can see its a Star pack (guage board layout gives it away!!!) I was putting those guage boards together nearly 20 years ago!
Tell me more, Andy, I'm interested. did you have the comp/motor lazer aligned?
'Talk' to you soon Andy.
Frosty:D
Hi, Frosty:)
nice to hear from you.
Yes it is a Star job, a High Flux shell and tube flooded R22 chiller with a Danfoss motor heat expansion valve and an MEV board with load up function used.
I recently fitted the Sabroe, alignment by myself, don't believe in lasers they can be fooled a good old clock can't (besides I am to mean to pay for something that can easily be done in house).
The Sabroe was fitted over a lony weekend with assistance from a pipe work subcontractor, we removed the old Grasso AC1280 on the Friday and cutout the crossmembers and tacked in the new mounts. After which all was plain sailing with the Sabroe up and running for production Sunday night.
Also the PLC gave up about 6 months ago, so the plant is now running on Dixel pack controller along with it's other two smaller AC880 brothers, with another Dixell controller cycling the three plants as req on a chilled water tank temp.
Plant runs well, I have been back to give it it's first service and check the alignment, still a bit of insulation on the suction required, but I will do this someday during maintenance.
Any Sabroes on HF chillers in your parts?
Regards. Andy.
Andy,
Sabroe recips compressors are very good machines. There are a lot of them fitted here in Brazil running very well.
There is also a York Factory here, placed in São Paulo that manufactures them.
Best regards
Volnei
Hi Andy
Sabroe are good compressors you may have worked on some I commissioned quite a few years back in Coleraine at the abbattoir there, it was a liquid pumped system on ammonia doing blast freezers, freezers and holding rooms all plc controlled, I am not that impressed with mycoms as they used to snap shafts and when we had them analyzed they where made with scrap metal!! so where failing with metal fatigue
Hi, Dave:) Hi, Marc:)
Dave that plant you talked about is still running, with more coolers added and a nice new single condenser, it ran on two condensers for years , maybe that was after your time.
The compressors are a little unusual in the fact that they are long stroke sabroes not the normal short stroke, that in fact and the lack of knowledge from the guy's programing the plc over the years has caused the compressors to be utilized outside their design evaporation and condensing pressures.
The plant about 5 years ago was changed to S68 oil, an alkabenzine mix, which promptly washed all the dirt/carbon back to the compressors.
Before starting with Star I was asked to look at a compressor on that site giving problems, one a Star engineer had rebuilt. The thrust was wrong at the coupling, whether the engineer had pulled up the coupling and nearly pulled the crank through the bearing or the meat plant maintenance had changed the motor and did the same I never found out. Anyway I had to renew the crankshaft and four conrods that the sides were cutout of.
Needless to say Star has never did any work in their since and me I will not be doing any work for that company, as they got a free compressor rebuilt from Star, which I think was un-justified.
Marc the compressor on the chiller is new, but the chiller was fitted in 1992. It was cheaper to replace the compressor than overhaul the Grasso AC12-80 that was fitted to the package. As for the loading of this plant the compressor starts and loads to 100% then cycles from 100 to 75 % normally. I have it set up to offcycle rather than unload. This compressor is only one off three fitted to HF chillers on this site, the other two are about half the sizes and are used to trim the load normally. Anyway the site has a large buffer tank with a baffle in it, the chiller take warm water from the returning process side of the tank and chill it sending it back to the cold suply side.
Me, I personally don,t like HF chiller bodies and In think Star are moving away from them only using them on the thermosyphon units, with plate and shell heat exchangers used on a hp float for the smaller chiller and plate heat exchangers on LPR used on the larger jobs.
So you don,t fancy another job with Star then
:D , I find them technically quite good, depends who you met, ther's some good work being done on CO2 at present by David Blackhurst at present, which has been reconised by the Inistitute of Refrigeration (they gave him some award or other)
That offer of a night out I will take up at a later date, hopefully we can work something out:cool: , I know I will have to go a Grasso course in Bristol sometime and we have submitted a quotation for a 1.5mW glycol chiller for a London firm which may progress before the summer.
Oh Sabroe have changed the oil filters to a thing abit like Gram which requires only a 13mm spanner to remove, should help you out Marc:D , less knuckles lost.
Nice hearing from both Dave and Yourself post again, you never know someone might even read the posts:rolleyes: !!!!!!
Regards. Andy.
Hi, All:)
I have posted a url for a spot on the Grasso site, if you follow the link to the Hydralic system the second page has a secondary system much like the plant above.
Grasso Secondary Coolant Systems
Hope this works alright Regards. Andy.:)
Hi, All
:( nah it doesn't work right. To get to the info you must follow the path Tools: Software : Chiller Cat : then pick the one that isn't oder the cd and it's in there.
Regards. Andy:o
Hi, Marc:)
it could be worse, you might even feel the need to work for York Ref:D
Speaking of York and water/glycol chillers, you know the way both of us agree (well nearly) that you are better making up a wet system capacity from a number of smaller compressors, not one large one with capacity reduction. Well I was working in a chicken process factory this week, where York fitted a wet glycol system. The plant consisted of two sabroe screws, with one larger one for the big/main load and one sab128 on inverter drive for capacity trimming. That small screw spent the three day I was there continually running, ramping up and down up and down, just as quick as I am saying this and every 10 minutes the larger screw would start, run up to capacity and then off load and stop. Never in my life have I heard such a noisy plant, or seen such a badly set up plant:( :( boy am I glad to get out of that plant room, just prior to going deaf:rolleyes:
Regards. Andy.:)
Some of the best machines there are.... badly used.... sounds familiar..... sad is it not!!!
I've heard a rumour that Sabroe screws are going to be phased out of the York range and Frick machines will be the "York" product.
Like the others, I cannot fault the Sabroe recips. No problems in the 18 years I worked on the plant, but whether this will continue now they use "nut & bolt catchers" in place of proper pleated filters....
Steve
I would be surprised unless they have decided to move away from the female drive machines.
Rather i would expect to see an amalgamation of the Frick, Sabroe and maybe even some of the Stal!!
Mind you with the peeps from across the pond in charge......... who knows!!!
Right i have a bit of an aggrevience here with some of the things you guys are saying about York! Am not going to call you guys liars etc.. for saying that you have come across plant installed or maintained by York and found that it's not been perfect or whatever, but to blatantly tar everyone with the same brush is just plain un-professional. In this field anyone with any kind of experience would understand that things dont go to plan every single time a large custom built system is designed and installed and that sometimes it takes time to sort them out. Christ i have been to systems installed by all the "big" players and thought what on earth were they thinking of! It takes a better engineer to acknowledge a problem with someone else's work and get on with it without telling the world!
To get to the point, no matter how good a company, engineers etc.. you have, people do tend to make an arse of things from time to time!
I would like to meet an engineer who claims to know everything about refrigeration and who has never made a balls up of there own!!!:)
Haven't you met Marc Then? :DQuote:
I would like to meet an engineer who claims to know everything about refrigeration and who has never made a balls up of there own!!!
So you expect the rest of us to carry the big players when thay make a henry halls of it!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Name and Shame
Name and Shame:D :D
They might be paying your mortage, but they certainly arn't paying mine, nor will they be;)
A friend of mine said to me once, in any big firm there is plenty of room for empty heads:)
Smaller firms carry less dead wood, they wouldn't survive otherwise:eek:
Kind Regards. Andy
A friend of mine said to me once, in any big firm there is plenty of room for empty heads
Smaller firms carry less dead wood, they wouldn't survive otherwise.
Andy, I can only agree with what you said, but my point is if you work in a branch with 15 engineers and two are as thick as sh!t, they not only damage the company name but the 13 other engineers rep too! Tarred with the same brush:)
Some of us don't like it!:)
As to making an arse of things, am sure you being a Star man have priced jobs only to be undercut on price by smaller firms and then went back to the site a year later to sort it out.
Or dare i say it but are you recommending that customers should avoid the bigger industrial contractors for smaller ones?:)
Regards
Chopper
Jesus Frank, you took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!! I was just about to reply with words to a similar effect, but I thought I'd scroll up and see if anybody's stole my thunder first and guess what.....
How you doin mate, long time no see (or speak) I see you are rattlin the posts up - have you nothing better to do??!!!!
God Andy I have seen some god dam awful Star plants .
I guess we all don't get it right all of the time unless ure name is Mark that is . lol
Having read 'choppers' original reply to Laurel and Hardy (Andy/Marc) , I would have to agree that the SA clown would better himself if he could move on from York baiting. You never know, Marc may even enjoy the view if he takes his head out of his a!se;)
Gents I no longer work for Star:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Star are a good company, but one that is heading in a different direction from me.
Big firms (corporate enitities) are in it for one thing only the bottom line.
Now Star would say they are not a corporate animal, they are or will soon be:(
There is a happy medium corporate firms are bad news, both for the staff and the customer. Small firms have no back up and limited technical ability.
Work for a firm where you can phone the boss and have it out with him if he has done you or the customer wrong.
I am lucky enough to now work for the largest refrigeration company in Ireland, my boss is the MD and his office is opposite mine, he every listens to me and sometimes takes my advise. Try that at York, Grenco and Star and see it you can advise the man at the top, or even speak to him:D
http://www.crossref.com
Kind Regards. Andy:)
Subzero:) I have not made a personnel attack on you, why would you have a pop at me:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by subzero
So I would be the skinny one then:D :D
Regards. Andy:)
Andy:)
Good to see you back.
With kind regards. Mark
Hello :)
I was working with many compressors, both screw and piston. All of them are OK with proper maintenance and all of them are with some small constructional disadvantages. It is not possible to put one at the throne and sh't another becuse the best one simply not exist. For that reason my advice to my clients were always; buy new comprssor within the same family with exchangeable spare parts
The question why York did decide to continue with production of only Frick compressors is not easy to answer. One of answers can be that York (Frick) already has production facilities somewhere at far east where people use to work for 1 US dolar/day.
On another hand we all know; spare parts are much more expensive and for that reason this production will remain in Europe to cover bigger production costs.
There is also one more reason (this one I've been told); complete capacity range will be covered with lot of different capacity compressors i.e. for each watt of capacity they will offer you another compressor. Coming to the customer try to imagine what profit they should make with spare parts:confused:
This is to say; if your screw compressor is not running at 100% capacity all the time you're loosing money (what is technically correct), now we are going to give you a tailor made compressor (with exact capacity) just for you plus big headache (free of charge) about your stock of spare parts, funny, ha?
Thanks Mark:)Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkFiddy
good to be back:D
Kind Regards. Andy:)
Andy,
I can see your point that you can be overlooked when at a large company but theres alot to be said for shouting very loudly so that no one can avoid you!:)
What makes you think that Star are going to become corporate monsters? Will Cross not go the same way if they continue to grow?
Regards
Chopper
Star has benen re-structured by a number of people in the last 5 years, the way they have changed the company is consistant with lining it up for a take over. The company is set up to offer a good return to share holders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Cross may end up the same, but it would take ten years work to structure the company to suit what share holder would need, the company is set up to offer good returns to the directors who own and run it AND for the people who work in the company.
Kind Regards. Andy:)
I did not intend a personal attack on you. I can, however, confirm that you would be the skinny one:D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Andy
Frosty - hows it going mate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
I've lost your e-mail address or I bet you've changed it again. Get in touch mate :)
Hello Frosty/Frank,
Hope you are both doing well.
Andy,
Business is Business; it keeps us all employed, does it not?
If your that passionate about your subject, you need to get a garage! :)
Hi Brian
Thinking of you the other day when talking to an old buddy.
Frosty rang me with an update. How you doin' mate?
Any nearer the finals?
Is life treating you good now that you have "gaffer" responsibilities :D
Text your latest mobile number :)
Hi Frank,
Supervisor must be the worst role you can have!! You take it from everyone... engineers, managers, customers etc etc...
I'm in my last year; at the moment I'm doing my dissertation on Entanglement as a resource in quantum computing... Very Interesting :).
I'll give you a ring this week and talk to everyone soon. Take it easy mate.
Brian
Hello Brian
How you doin m8? Dissertation in entanglement eh? I bet you can't sort all the cables out at the back of my PC!!!! LOL
Seriously, how you keeping, it's been so long. Write back mate.
Frosty
Hi Andy,
Could you please note us discharge temperature sensor as pic enclosed.
Sabroe Model No.: S26B (NH3)
Stanley
Hi, sip2000 :)
Welcome to RE forums....
....whenever you ask for help you must give as much data as possible;), not to guess...Quote:
Originally Posted by sip2000
....seems this compressor is vertical Stal screw 8-9 years old....do you have any additional documentation where you can find description of temperature sensor you need...probably Danfoss....do you have Unisab II control....
Best regards, Josip :)
looks like danfoss pt100..... if it is unisab control then highly likely.... though i am a few years out of date now!!!