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mgtet
16-06-2007, 09:40 AM
Are you guys now advising customers that any pressure relief valves that are not vented to outside need to be piped outside to comply with f gas regs.
My customers just look at me like its a money making exercise!

LRAC
16-06-2007, 09:50 AM
My customers just look at me like its a money making exercise!

We're having to completely change the way we work with the Fgas regs coming, and yes the end user thinks its a scam for us to make more money.

We've stopped all maintenance contract renewals at the moment until we can digest the full implications of the regs for example, returning to site 4 weeks later too see if the system is still leak tight.

Getting customers waste numbers and implementing a register kept on site of gas used,reclaimed etc.
One good thing the liability lies with the end user.

Regards
Lrac

Argus
16-06-2007, 10:02 AM
.... any pressure relief valves that are not vented to outside need to be piped outside to comply with f gas regs.
My customers just look at me like its a money making exercise!


The F Gas Regulation that you hear about is not concerned with the emergency operation of relief valves.
It is concerned with the emissions of F gases in ordinary use. You should be reading EN 378, instead. (Part 2 - section 7.4.7 - Discharge Piping from Pressure Relief Devices). If PED applies to the plant then this is part of the implementation of the PED.

Moreover, it has never been acceptable or good practice to allow pressure relief valves to vent internally or in any plant room. They must always be vented to a safe location. If this is considered to be outside, then outside it must be.

.

old gas bottle
18-06-2007, 09:56 PM
very true,but i think what some of us are comming up against is convincing the customer that something that has been like that from day one from the factory needs changing now, just how it is,:(

Argus
19-06-2007, 02:52 PM
.


Well, the realisation that there would be a serious liability issue for the operator if the PRV blew in a confined space and if there were injuries, concentrates the mind rapidly in these circumstances.

Let’s face it, there’s no equivocation here; what’s wrong is wrong and the fact that it’s been like that since it was installed has no bearing on the facts.

The one important thing that the original poster, mgtet, should be asking is, did he or his company put it in like that?

He asked the question and we gave him an answer.

.


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old gas bottle
19-06-2007, 03:15 PM
do what we do,keep sending the fact in on your service report and invoice,at least you have told them, keep your self covered.

mgtet
22-06-2007, 06:39 PM
[quote=Argus;70575].


The one important thing that the original poster, mgtet, should be asking is, did he or his company put it in like that?

He asked the question and we gave him an answer.

The answer to your question is no neither I nor the company I work have installed equipment in this manner.

US Iceman
22-06-2007, 07:04 PM
Why not get a copy of the proper PED directive and show that to your customers? If they see it is a legal written requirement, then there is no guess work.

They either comply or do not comply, and it was their decision. Not yours. Leave a copy of pertinent section as a hard copy and when they sign your invoice, note that you left them a copy.

Nothing like cheap insurance to protect your backside.:D

Argus
22-06-2007, 07:10 PM
.

Then you and your company are doing the right thing to bring it to his attention.

When you have informed your customer in writing that his installation is potentially dangerous, you offer a price to put it right and if he refuses, give him notice to cancel his contract and walk away.

Alternatively, you can obey the impulse to carry on as usual and hope that nothing happens to put you in the spotlight.

.

nevgee
23-06-2007, 01:58 AM
Tis true .... if you put your concerns in the report sheet and keep a copy ...your ass is covered. But as a good service provider you must keep reminding your client of the issue ...tug the forelock and scrumble your cap ....they pay the way ...but don't let them forget you did tell them so!

TXiceman
02-07-2007, 07:57 PM
If it is deficiency, note it on the service ticket and have the customer sign the ticket. We have even gone so far as to have them initial and date the particular note.

Ken