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Pooh
09-12-2006, 06:42 PM
Hi folks just wondering if anybody out there has come across the Japanese CAS (Cells Alive System) freezing system as far as I can work out it uses magnets and some serious black magic as well as a standard blast freezer to maintain the quality of the product. We are buying one of these things (170K) for a research project and I am looking for someone other than the manufacturers who has seen one working.

Ian

steveg
09-12-2006, 10:48 PM
hello,
im told that grimsby college are going to buy some. im really interested in it but not sure what it could be usefull for, any ideas????????

Pooh
09-12-2006, 11:10 PM
Steve
yes grimsby are buying one and we are hopefully getting it in March but we are going to run some trials for various companies, the general use as I see it is for fish apparently tuna, oysters etc are not effected by freezing using CAS. Improved texture and taste.

Ian

Andy P
10-12-2006, 05:35 PM
Dear Ian,

I saw a presentation on this recently, and it struck me that it would have many applications beyond food freezing. I'd be interested to hear how you get on with it - will try to contact you nearer the time to discuss further

cheers

Andy P

Samarjit Sen
10-12-2006, 06:15 PM
This is the first time that I have heard of the CAS system. Could you please let me know some information on the same and guid me to some links where I would be able to know about the same.

Pooh
10-12-2006, 07:53 PM
Have a look at this site you should be able to translate it from Japanese
www.abi-net.co.jp/pro_freezer (http://www.abi-net.co.jp/pro_freezer)

Ian

winfred.dela
10-12-2006, 11:42 PM
Hi folks just wondering if anybody out there has come across the Japanese CAS (Cells Alive System) freezing system
Ian

Four (4) years ago a Japanese visit us & trying to sell a CAS equipment.
Very impressive in the presentation & brochure but i did not push for it.

TOO EXPENSIVE for my client's use .

. . . :)

Samarjit Sen
11-12-2006, 05:26 AM
Hello Fredy,

Do you have any contact address of the Japanese firm who was promoting the CAS system. The reference Pooh gave are in Japanese, so it is not possible to read it. There is a little bit of English, but that does not help.

Thank you

winfred.dela
11-12-2006, 07:09 PM
Dear Samarjit,

Been trying to find the proposal but can't. As far as i can remember, the price of CAS freezer is more than double compared with the two stage blast freezer.

The brochure says at page 21: The ABI Institute of Technology is located at the Tokatsu Techno-Plaza in Kashiwa City, Chiba Prefecture.

Attached pages are for your reference. Please note at bottom of page 5:
"UNAUTHORIZED MENTION, REPRODUCTION, OR COPYING OF THE CONTENTS OF THIS PAMPHLET IS FORBIDDEN" :confused:

Regards,
Winfredy

. . . :)

Samarjit Sen
12-12-2006, 03:36 AM
Thank you Fredy.

Brian_UK
12-12-2006, 07:52 PM
"UNAUTHORIZED MENTION, REPRODUCTION, OR COPYING OF THE CONTENTS OF THIS PAMPHLET IS FORBIDDEN"Who's a naughty Winfredy then ?

Thanks, I do like a rebel ;)

winfred.dela
12-12-2006, 11:58 PM
Who's a naughty Winfredy then ?

Thanks, I do like a rebel ;)


Hope they will not go to our court and file a case.

Also, my customer may consider buying one so a page may not be so bad.

The pages with the equipment pictures & specifications have the Note at the bottom of the pages.
But not all pages (especially the marketing pages) have the quoted Note as in the two pages i attached here.

. . . :)

Pooh
13-12-2006, 12:22 AM
Winfred
if you need any further info drop me a mail as obviously I am a lot further sown the line on buying one of these than most people plus one of my colleages has actually been over to Japan and seen one working.

Ian

US Iceman
13-12-2006, 02:43 AM
I seem to remember seeing somthing similar to this before. I think the whole purpose of this was to freeze the food in such a way to prevent the cell structure from changing during the preezing process.

If the cell structure did not rupture then the food consistency and taste remained good.

I also believe this was orginally developed for sea food, especially fish.

Samarjit Sen
13-12-2006, 05:54 PM
Hello Pooh,

In case you have some details on the Cells Alive System, kindly do provide the same to me. I am interested in knowing more about the same.

Pooh
14-12-2006, 01:19 AM
Samarjit
I will keep you posted as an when I find any further information.

Ian

ecclesk
19-12-2006, 12:10 AM
I recently herd about a simalar system called superchill dont know to much about it but might be worth having a search on the web

winfred.dela
19-12-2006, 01:31 AM
In case you have some details on the Cells Alive System, kindly do provide the same to me. I am interested in knowing more about the same.

Hi Samarjit,

A customer sent me a 13 page pdf file about CAS and i cannot attached here because its more than the allowed. I sent the file to your other email address so you can take a look at it.

How can i attached the pdf file (1,200+KB) here so that others can access the file?

Regards
Winfred

NH3LVR
19-12-2006, 02:15 AM
Winfred;
I also would like to see the pdf.
You could post it on http://megaupload.com/ or on http://rapidshare.com/ and then give us the link to the file.
This sounds like interesting technology.
NH3lvr

winfred.dela
19-12-2006, 03:09 AM
Winfred;
I also would like to see the pdf.
You could post it on http://megaupload.com/ or on http://rapidshare.com/ and then give us the link to the file.
This sounds like interesting technology.
NH3lvr


Thanks for the tip. . .

Here's the link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/8078111/ABI_CAS.pdf.html

winfred.dela
19-12-2006, 03:28 AM
RE Cell Alive System, Here's another link to the pdf:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HB7WO0N9

Hope to have shared something valuable

NH3LVR
19-12-2006, 04:58 PM
Gentlepersons;
I am not a Physicist, however I have seen very knowledgeable people using things like magnetic water treatment and ionized air in boilers, on the promise of enormous savings and efficiencies. Until they found out they simply did nothing but enrich the seller.
To me this sounds like like a combination of an MRI machine and a bit of Snake Oil.
(For my non-US friends "snake oil n. A worthless preparation fraudulently peddled as a cure for many ills".)
I looked through the Literature with great interest.
I did see a lot of promotional literature.
What I did not see was this being used by anyone on a daily basis in a production setting.
I am especially skeptical about using magnetic fields in storage.

winfred.dela
20-12-2006, 12:48 AM
To me this sounds like like a combination of an MRI machine and a bit of Snake Oil.
I did see a lot of promotional literature.
What I did not see was this being used by anyone on a daily basis in a production setting.
I am especially skeptical about using magnetic fields in storage.


When i received the literature years ago, I also am skeptical so it just goes into my box of Reading Materials. (I still has a box full.)

But, this could also be the future like the microwave oven. Will we accept the idea of a microwave oven if it was given to us maybe sometime in the 40's?

In the literature provided to me, there are a lot pictures of different models: from a few hundred kgs to Tons kgs CAS freezing equipment installed in a customers' facility complete with people around.

Hope its all actual equipment and actual people in an actual facility.

Do we wait for the equipment to be installed at our backyard or do we research/study it now?

. . . :)

NH3LVR
20-12-2006, 07:59 PM
Winfred;
I agree we need to keep up with new technology. The days when one person could know it all in any particular field are long gone. Just as soon as you think you have it all in hand you come across a new controller or other piece of equipment that sets you back to your beginnings.
I am a bit confused as to why we are having difficulty locating a actual user of this product who is touting its benefits. If I was using this process I would want the world to know my product was Superior! One Company that was mentioned (circa 2000) makes no mention of this process on their website.
I a reminded of a plant I watched being erected several years ago. They were going to be drying fish byproducts with a revolutionary new process.
I had lunch with the man who ran the laboratory where the process was developed, to discuss another issue. I mentioned that the new plant was about ready to come on line using his work.
I was stunned when he said "Yes, but it will not work"
He explained that the process was only workable in the laboratory, and that it was difficult then. But apparently someone neglected to inform the investors of this!

Again I am not knowledgeable enough to have an informed opinion on the suitability of this process.
But we have had 282 views of this thread and not a single verifiable commercial example to judge the process by.
I hope to be proved wrong about my doubts. If the manufacturer would like to promote his product for free this is the ideal place!

winfred.dela
21-12-2006, 12:42 AM
I am a bit confused as to why we are having difficulty locating a actual user of this product who is touting its benefits. If I was using this process I would want the world to know my product was Superior! One Company that was mentioned (circa 2000) makes no mention of this process on their website.


- Your quite right on this and i am trying to contact the Japanese who try to sell us CAS equipment.

Hope the one to be installed in Grimsby will materialize as mentioned by Pooh & Steveg


Pooh:
Steve
yes grimsby are buying one and we are hopefully getting it in March but we are going to run some trials for various companies, the general use as I see it is for fish apparently tuna, oysters etc are not effected by freezing using CAS. Improved texture and taste.

Ian





I hope to be proved wrong about my doubts. If the manufacturer would like to promote his product for free this is the ideal place!


I also hope that a member of RE who have actually witness the operation of this CAS equipment will share the experience.

. . . :)

mmcnicholas
30-06-2007, 10:58 PM
Hi Samarjit,

A customer sent me a 13 page pdf file about CAS and i cannot attached here because its more than the allowed. I sent the file to your other email address so you can take a look at it.

How can i attached the pdf file (1,200+KB) here so that others can access the file?

Regards
Winfred
Winfred,
Would you mind reposting that pdf.....I would very much like to read it. Thank you.

Or better email it to me at mmcnicholas@sustainableseafoods.com.

Tycho
06-05-2008, 01:23 AM
Winfred,
Would you mind reposting that pdf.....I would very much like to read it. Thank you.

Or better email it to me at mmcnicholas@sustainableseafoods.com.

Copy for me too please? :)

kamolnes at gmail.com

winfred.dela
01-06-2008, 08:58 AM
check this out. . .

http://rapidshare.com/files/119237976/Cell_Alive.pdf

http://rapidshare.com/files/119235612/CAS_ABI.pdf

mattynige
02-06-2008, 10:48 AM
hi there new to this too

very interested in CAS

Winfred could u email that pdf please to
matthew.young@mccain.co.uk

thank you

quarterpounder
27-08-2008, 10:50 AM
I have client who travelled to japan, to see the technology at work was quite impressed, but they didn't have a working prototype for the application he requires, ( flat bed tunnel freezer) and the cost was somewhere in the region of 3/4 of million euro.
Any updates from end users on working models?

Chef1
18-09-2008, 09:16 PM
I don't know about this system but I do know about ATES Alpha Thermal Energy Systems, it's applications are so far for Freezer and coolers. I did an install in Tampa of the system and saved the operator $554.00 a month off his eletric bill. Check it out. blueglaciergulfcoast.com

Chef1
18-09-2008, 09:34 PM
have you heard anything about ATES? it's a phase shift product in SS tubes suspended from the ceiling in a freezer that drops the temp 12 to 14 degrees colder than the compressor can go, therefore we turn the thermostats up and save the operator energy. check it out at blueglaciergulfcoast@yahoo.com
really cool stuff.
Rick

btusaver
21-10-2008, 02:57 AM
I never heard of CAS before and through search I found a site where you can learn more about CAS at this web site ww sakura.com.vn/cas/index.htm and it is in English.

HallsEngineer
21-10-2008, 05:38 PM
This has a big future if it really works. Cryogenics and human freezing is only not possible because of cell distortion through ice crystals. We have looked at it but nothing came of it.

Brian_UK
21-10-2008, 07:08 PM
have you heard anything about ATES? it's a phase shift product in SS tubes suspended from the ceiling in a freezer that drops the temp 12 to 14 degrees colder than the compressor can go, therefore we turn the thermostats up and save the operator energy. check it out at blueglaciergulfcoast@yahoo.com
really cool stuff.
Rick
Posting an email address doesn't really provide a link for people to follow, sorry.

nh3wizard
21-10-2008, 07:33 PM
I don't know about this system but I do know about ATES Alpha Thermal Energy Systems, it's applications are so far for Freezer and coolers. I did an install in Tampa of the system and saved the operator $554.00 a month off his eletric bill. Check it out. blueglaciergulfcoast.com

Chef1, could you send me a PM, I am curious who you did the install for? and how you determined it saved him $554

Graeme Glen
19-02-2009, 10:45 AM
I worked for ABI in Tokyo, Japan trying to get their international marketing up and running. It was an interesting (and occasionally weird) experience.

I did speak with several companies who were using it. eg: freezing cod milt on board a ship and defrosting it successfully for the Japan market. So there are companies using it.

However, I could never properly quantify the benefit beyond it being simply "better". I always found this very annoying and detrimental to marketing efforts. Selling a very expensive freezer based on it being "better" was always doomed to failure.

There was a lot of interest in ABI, and we had a steady stream of companies bringing in products to freeze, and the results were always far superior, but, again, largely unquantifiable, so when it came time to pitch it to the accountants, companies would always buy the cheap Chinese model.

So if anyone out there has quantifiable evidence of ABI's benefit, I would love to see it.

graeme.glen2141@gmail.com

Tycho
19-02-2009, 05:27 PM
The company I work for has bought a working rig from Japan and have been testing it for almost 6 months now.

we froze some salmon and sent samples to companies in USA via normal ship freight, and they came to visit a few days after they received the samples.

I'm not sure how much I can say, but I think it's going to be a very marketable product if the system can be adapted to work with the product all the way from first time freezing and in the storage.

you can contact Tore, his e-mail is available on this link http://www.mmc.no/?cid=9

kitkat
15-04-2009, 08:44 AM
I'm Japanese and thinking of buying CAS freezer for my house-hold.
In Japan, Mitsubishi is now selling a fridge with CAS freezer which may not be for a commercial or research use but I think it's good for a personal use.
I am thinking of storing things with stem cells like teeth or mentrual blood or possiblly my eggs?
Cus it's very very expensive to keep those in a special institute...
Not sure if home-use-CAS fridge is capable of keeping those cells alive, but worth a try I guess...

P.S. I saw on TV before that a little fish frozen in CAS freezezr got alive when defrosted and the frozen organ propally functioned after defrosed.

rude
16-04-2009, 09:45 AM
I am thinking of storing things with stem cells like teeth or mentrual blood or possiblly my eggs?
Cus it's very very expensive to keep those in a special institute...


Im sorry i had to post off topic but thats just weird!!

Graeme Glen
21-05-2009, 04:41 AM
I'm Japanese and thinking of buying CAS freezer for my house-hold.
In Japan, Mitsubishi is now selling a fridge with CAS freezer which may not be for a commercial or research use but I think it's good for a personal use.
I am thinking of storing things with stem cells like teeth or mentrual blood or possiblly my eggs?
Cus it's very very expensive to keep those in a special institute...
Not sure if home-use-CAS fridge is capable of keeping those cells alive, but worth a try I guess...

P.S. I saw on TV before that a little fish frozen in CAS freezezr got alive when defrosted and the frozen organ propally functioned after defrosed.
The Mitsubishi fridge you are talking about is NOT a CAS freezer. It has a compartment that slowly freezes things put in it. Apparently that minimizes cell damage. (got one in my kitchen)

Claudiob
19-10-2009, 01:49 AM
Hi Folks,
Do you have any additional info on CAS that could be sent to me asap ? I am after photos, technical reports, contact names and email adresses, weblinks, webpages, etc... The more the merrier !!!
Thanks a lot in advance
Cheers
Claudio

Claudiob
19-10-2009, 01:52 AM
For the thread I posted above, please send the info/documents to claudiob@utas.edu.au

Cheers
Claudio

cryogentech
19-10-2009, 03:19 PM
Interesting possibilities for applications here. I noticed that some in this thread are discussing this as a possibility for cell freezing. Haven't seen or heard of this system before but there is a HUGE difference between freezing food and freezing of products like stem cells and cells used in research as these have a very high and often priceless value. Traditional methods for this involve controlled rate freezing to avoid cell rupture and maintian viability and then storing in temperatures below -130C ( the crystallization point of water) to preserve the cells for long term storage either using liquid nitrogen or autocascade mechanical refrigeration. If it works, it could be a better mouse trap. Energy conservation rarely comes into play with systems that deal with critical storage applications. Reliability and repeatability are almost always the overriding concern.

Tycho
24-10-2009, 02:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fehdWAefXWw


video from a CAS rig we have at our workshop, water was at -8.2C and free of ice crystals. it froze instantly when he gave it a tap, with no expansion.

we have now moved the rig to a salmon fish factory where they are freezing salmon with great success.

all the tests we have done, chefs and fish controllers can't see the difference between the fresh product and the cas frozen and thawed product.


one thing I noticed was that the cas frozen cod liver was actually better on taste than the fresh cod liver

GreenCool
26-11-2009, 02:06 AM
Hey Everyone,

I heard that Grimsby have bought a Transcritical CO2 spiral freezer with CAS built in. It also captures all the waste heat as 70C hot water.

G

Mr.Freezer
09-08-2010, 08:19 AM
Recently Japan Society of Refrigerating and Air Conditioning Engineers made a very serious research on efficacity of CAS. The title of thesis is "Experimental Investigation of Effectiveness of Magnetic Field on Food Freezing Process (Trans. od the JSRAE Vol.26, No.4 2009 pp371-386). The conclusion is "NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE".

Erica
29-11-2010, 08:33 PM
Could you please send me a link to the article mentioned in your thread re: Experimental Investigation of Effectiveness of Magnetic Field on Food Freezing Process? I am unable to find an english version online.

Thank you,

Erica

rongshun
02-12-2010, 12:05 PM
Please send me a copy of this "Experimental Investigation of Effectiveness of Magnetic Field on Food Freezing Process" in English version at yqiqi123@gmail.com. Thank you.

Shaheed-Andrews
03-12-2010, 01:05 AM
hay there guys im kinda new to this hole thing but im seriously interested in this CAS FREEZING but i can not find a single thing on suppliers or manufacturers details can any body out there send me some contact details please my addy is a6prop@gmail.com

Shaheed-Andrews
03-12-2010, 10:27 AM
hay there im kinda new to this hole thing but im seriously interested in this CAS FREEZING but i can not find a single thing on suppliers or manufacturers details can any body out there send me some contact details please my addy is a6prop@gmail.com (a6prop@gmail.com)

nikole95.7
04-01-2011, 08:41 AM
hi there new to this too

very interested in CAS

Winfred could u email that pdf please to
matthew.young@mccain.co.uk

thank you
I have client who travelled to japan, to see the technology at work was quite impressed, but they didn't have a working prototype for the application he requires, ( flat bed tunnel freezer) and the cost was somewhere in the region of 3/4 of million euro.

vsalmens
24-01-2011, 06:03 PM
Recently Japan Society of Refrigerating and Air Conditioning Engineers made a very serious research on efficacity of CAS. The title of thesis is "Experimental Investigation of Effectiveness of Magnetic Field on Food Freezing Process (Trans. od the JSRAE Vol.26, No.4 2009 pp371-386). The conclusion is "NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE".

I think this is the one?
www(dot)jsrae(dot)or(dot)jp(slash)ron(slash)summary(slash)vol.26-4(slash)26-4-1(dot)html

I'd also be interested in getting the original paper, English or Japanese.

fiercedeity
27-01-2011, 06:35 PM
I don't know too much about this but this looks awesome. Good luck to ya mate.

edri
05-04-2011, 09:48 AM
Hi guyz.

It's been day I am looking for a comany that could provide me with the service of freezing vegetables on a regular basis. Using one of these CAS fridges.

I am in France and desperatly looking for a partner.
In France would be perfect but I'm open to any solution close in Europe :)

Do you have any contact who could direct me to a company who bought one of these and can provide this type of service on a regular basis (I'm looking for 1t / month freezing stuff to start) ?

If not, well, I may look in the direction of buying one.
Anybody knows someone having a second hand fridge ? :)

Thanks for your help, I'd really appreciate any feedback.

MichaŽl

edri
05-04-2011, 09:53 AM
Tycho,

Saw your video.

Quite impressive.

Did you do any other funny ones ? :)