Heat reclaim condenser

[hladotech]

Dear Colleagues,

I've "designed" something and it looks like Idea in heat reclaim/heat pump solution.
Here is my diagram.
The reason is to use water condenser simulteneously with air condenser. Water condenser has liquid volume capacity so there is no receiver. If there is need to recover condensing capacity water enters water cond. and refrigerant starts to condense. % of water condensing could be any.
I doubt if hot gas could heat up liquid refrigerant at HR idle...?
What do you think? Will it works?
15073

[Brian_UK]

Will you need to add heaters to your S&T condenser to cover the winter period?

[mbc]

Hi
have a look for this design

[hladotech]

Hi
have a look for this design

My previous post was with diagram as you add: water cooled condenser was in series. But i've changed it to parallel 'cause I'm afraid superheated gas will heat up liguid in water condenser when there is no reclaim needed but cooling is and air condenser in run.

Anyway thanks for your attention!

[monkey spanners]

I'd pipe them in series but put a bypass on the heat recovery once the water is warm, it'll need fan speed control on the air cooled condenser.

[mbc]

Hi spanner

what you think for my design

you can put fan control speed of that or pressure control
it is not series
it is parallel but in special design

[hladotech]

I'm thinking about design and these what I've recognized form Evapco layout manual:
15075
Pressure drop across air cooled condenser is sagnificant and could be 0.5-1 bar. So if we have discharge pressure for example 15b=P1 at P2 it will be 14b, also we have bottom trapped from air condenser. So the liquid refrigerant will not drain from air condenser untill vertical drain leg overcome pressure drop with it's liquid column to push liguid into receiver/condenser. If this vertical leg does not exist we will reach 100% flooding of air condenser and so and so.
So if we want proper work we have to have lower pressure in the receiver with that design. But it is impossible with simultaneous work of two condensers.
I'm afraid it is impossible to work simultaneously without special device which will balance pressure drops between condensers but in such case we have to provide one more receiver...and I'm afraid it is impossible.
I've looked for air cooled chillers from famous manufacturers but did not find any with simultaneous work of two condenser - water and air.
So I think the only real design is to special utilize one of two condensers separately:
1) with AC we have to close valve at WC inlet and equalize receiver
2) with WC we have just to open valve and stop AC fans so not to flood AC and starve for refrigerant

15076

What do you think about, dear colleaques?

[mbc]

Hi
I design it .
I think it works we have same system in thermosyphone oil cooler
only thing you have to be careful piping and slope of that.

I did two condenser air cold and water cold ( first air cold and second water cold ) in series ,
water cold condenser works in summer time (Difference temp. summer and winter we have 50 C)

[hladotech]

mbc,

have you ever tested this design?
It will not works the same way as thermosyphone oil cooler because it is completely different (look at Evapco design manual). It could works with low PD as evaporative condenser but not with aircooled.

The Idea of my design is to use heat reclaim condenser simultaneously with air cooled condenser and this is the problem....

[mbc]

Hi
I wrote before No I have not test it
my meaning of same with thermosyphne oil cooler was piping and slope of that and also air cooled condenser should be above of water cooled condenser
in thermosyphone minimum high of that is 2.40 meter
again piping and slopes of pipes is very very important

with air cooled and water cooled condenser I saved water
in system
in my design you get all super heat

[Segei]

I'm thinking about design and these what I've recognized form Evapco layout manual:
15075
Pressure drop across air cooled condenser is sagnificant and could be 0.5-1 bar. So if we have discharge pressure for example 15b=P1 at P2 it will be 14b, also we have bottom trapped from air condenser. So the liquid refrigerant will not drain from air condenser untill vertical drain leg overcome pressure drop with it's liquid column to push liguid into receiver/condenser. If this vertical leg does not exist we will reach 100% flooding of air condenser and so and so.
So if we want proper work we have to have lower pressure in the receiver with that design. But it is impossible with simultaneous work of two condensers.
I'm afraid it is impossible to work simultaneously without special device which will balance pressure drops between condensers but in such case we have to provide one more receiver...and I'm afraid it is impossible.
I've looked for air cooled chillers from famous manufacturers but did not find any with simultaneous work of two condenser - water and air.
So I think the only real design is to special utilize one of two condensers separately:
1) with AC we have to close valve at WC inlet and equalize receiver
2) with WC we have just to open valve and stop AC fans so not to flood AC and starve for refrigerant

15076

What do you think about, dear colleaques?
I think that you can try to use control pressure receiver. One receiver should be used for two condensers. However, pressure in this receiver should be 1-1.5bars lower than condensing pressure. Each condenser should have liquid trap. At the bottom of the trap liquid float should be installed.