k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting [Archive]

xbox40489

18-06-2012, 03:22 PM

I have this machine transported. From one country to another.

So I would think it has been thrown with. Or it's age is showing.

So as I said.

I witnessed the pump working, by having both buttons pushed in. The green and the blue one.
I connect the circuit for the pump I think. But not the compressor.

The cutter grid is getting hot. So also that is ok. No continuity problems. The only strange thing about the cutter grid is that is giving me more then 18V reading on my multimeter.

Does this issue have to do with the shot thickness thermostat? If I study the scheme I gave.

I have this picture of the topinterior of a ignis k20 models.

This is not my machine but an example. As it looks the same:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j43bvlaulrfa55n/Top%20Interior.jpg

A blue and white cable and a brown cable are connected to the K20 K40 Ice Machine 18 Volt Transformer for the Cutter Grid. The brown cable is directly coming from the green switch as you close the circuit by pressing the greenbutton. The brown cable is soldered on the transformer on 220V by default. You can change and solder it to 240V. But my current from the wall reads 219V, which is close enough.

So as a result K20 K40 Ice Machine 18 Volt Transformer for the Cutter Grid give me around 50V instead of the 18V asked as for right now with the shot Ice Thickness Thermostat with it's broken capillar pipe.

Also another thing I noticed with my multimeter for continiuty i s that instead of beeping continiously. It was giving me beeps and pause and beep and pauses when I was checking the blue cable. So say the continuity ofrom the ice thickness thermostat to the fuse box. I cant test this no more now. As I removed the Ice thickness item already. And right now the 220V is not connected. Might give it a try next week when 220V is up.

I can't have this machine working for now, I did not look into what controls what from my scheme. But I have tried as I said to check if all things are working.

As a recap:

The pump works.

K20 K40 ICE MACHINE 18 VOLT TRANSFORMER FOR CUTTER GRID works as well but it is giving me 50V instead of de required 18V.

The compressor works. Plus the fan next to the compressor.

I would think the heating element next to the compressor works as well. I forgot the name of it.

Water Inlet / Fill Valve for Philips K20 40 Ice Machine supposed to work. As when powered it won't let any water inside?

Thermostat - K20/40 Ice Machine Bin Full Sensor Philips, this one I dont know how to test this one. This might be shot too as the machine is stuck on the cycle that it is full. Maybe.

I have ordered my spare part this week. The ice thickness thermostat.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHILIPS-K20-K40-ICE-MACHINE-ICE-THICKNESS-THERMOSTAT-/130384719590?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item1e5b88eee6

I will need to wait for it to arrive from the UK to do more testing. As you can see the item origin.

Could I have ordered from a cheaper source and from the United states or China? I live in St Maarten in the caribbean. I would think anywhere else then the UK would be cheaper.

r.bartlett:

You are right the damn thing looks like pasta spagetti right away. But then again I was happy when it worked before I moved it.

The fuse looks intact. I pull out the fuse and checked it out and the fuse is ok. Does the pump working state that the fuse is oke? I havent studied the scheme.

And the clean cycle works. But I think I havent had it long enough on to see if the inletvalve is working.

install monkey:

I wouldnt know how to link out the thickness stat. Do you mean to Connect the blue with the other wires? I have already taken the stat out of its place. But you can give me pointers how to link this. So I can still test it while the new stat arrives.

I have to do the dirty work to remove the cutter grid and the evaporator. to screw on the new stat when it arrives. Last time I checked it is just screwed onto the evaporator plate. I am not sure no more. I have cleaned this machine in the past.

Also I have seen on the picture above of the top interior. The capillar was protected with a plastic tube. Mine was not protected at all and broke off when I was removing the stat.from its place while troubleshooting.

r.bartlett:

Not sure what HGV means.

install monkey:

Yes as you can read the capillary is snapped. Maybe it was snapped since I moved it. Which explains why the machine didnt start after being transported from country to country.

So I am awaiting the new ice thickness thermostat with a good capillary to see if it relieves this problem.

In the mean time all tips are welcome. If anything I will post when the part arrive in say 6 weeks time?

B G Scott

18-06-2012, 09:01 PM

Please note, the BLUE button is the clean out (wash cycle) and if it is pushed IN it will STOP the compressor from running.
Make sure it is NOT pushed in if you are trying to test the ice making cycle.

xbox40489

18-06-2012, 11:34 PM

B G Scott:

Ok so for now do you think it is worth testing without the ice thickness thermostat?

I can manage to test if you show me how to hook up the cables. Or link the cables.

I can say for now. The greenbutton pressed in never gave me a starting compressor.

Only when I connect the compressor cables directly to the 220V(black cable and the other brown cable) it will start. Which means the compressor is doing fine.

What else can I try?

r.bartlett

19-06-2012, 12:35 PM

xbox40489

19-06-2012, 08:09 PM

Follow the diagram and see where the power stops. Remember as we say they switch on the Neturals too...

Ok so you want me to press the greenbutton in and go on hunting where the power stops.

I dont understand how I check the switching on neutrals.

My greenswitch might be broke?

The reaction from the greenswitch is that is does not power the pump, no noise nothing.

Is the solenoid the beginning of the problem? Because it has to connect cable 26(blue) to my pump to power it.

It seems not to connect the same wire 26 to the pump motor to start it up!

I am going to investigate it later.

Here was the scheme again:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j43bvlaulrfa55n/Top%20Interior.jpg

B G Scott

19-06-2012, 08:38 PM

OK lets start at the beginning, try not to look at the whole system break in down into small sections.
1/ If you press the Green button does the pump start.?
If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.
2/ the only control on this machine that stops the compressor from running is the bin stat.
The compressor runs during the freezing cycle and also during the harvest cycle with the hot gas energised via the ice thickness stat.
3/ Go back to basics, check that the bin stat has continuity, test that you have voltage at the compressor terminals. If you don't then check the continuity of the wiring from the bin stat to the compressor.
Don't get lost further down the line until you have established the basics, then come back with more information then maybe some smart tech on the site will direct you in the right direction.
I feel you have lost the plot somewhere down the line, I know you have ordered a new thickness thermostat but this does not STOP the compressor it just opens the hot gas valve and STOPS the pump.
You can test the compressor operation and the ice production without this stat, but you will not be able to harvest the the ice slab automatically but you could rig a switch to activate the harvest cycle just to observe the rest of the cycle

xbox40489

20-06-2012, 12:25 AM

1/ If you press the Green button does the pump start.?
If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.

your sentence is not complete after you said FIRST. What first? This forum sucks you cant even edit what you wrote.

For all I know. The pump does NOT start. When the green switch is pressed. I can only see the pump energized when the BLUE button is also pressed in after the GREEN button is pressed in.

I'll explain how the cables are hooked up on the switches with a picture.

green and blue button ice maker

http://db.tt/oRjcblaL

I took the internet topinterior picture to compare what I have hooked up as cables.

Bare with me on this one. I migh have the Green button hooked up fine. But I dont know if the blue button is hooked up right.

By comparison looks like did hook it up wrong.

xbox40489

20-06-2012, 01:05 AM

I have switched the cables back to how the topinterior picture has it hooked up now by comparing the picture side to side. But the

http://db.tt/dtTNuh03

I have it back to this now.

I still dont know how the blue switch works, can someone explain the switch with the numbers?

B G Scott

20-06-2012, 06:46 AM

If you are going to be rude and offencive then you are on your own, people here are trying to help you and if you cannot understand that this forum is a group of people with differing experience and skills assisting each other then you are in the wrong place.

xbox40489

20-06-2012, 07:10 AM

Well I am not being rude at all.

I am asking you to finish your sentence. Your advice! You said check dot dot FIRST.

If I read it again I can't understand what you meant. You left a word out what you adviced me to check first.

Reread what you posted.

And by all means I need help from you guys.

xbox40489

20-06-2012, 07:12 AM

If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.

Or now I see you meant "that" instead of "the".

Your point 1 I need to wait for the item to arrive!

I started to check the wiring of the cleaning switch(blue switch)

Did I attach the cables good?

B G Scott

20-06-2012, 09:08 AM

Look, I have mentioned before the BLUE switch is just for the cleaning cycle.
It does not have to be pushed in during the ice making cycle.
The blue switch does this, it turns ON the pump and turns OFF the refrigeration system, therefore with this switch ON the compressor will NOT run.
Switch on the GREEN switch, test that you have power IN and OUT of the switch, if you do then go to the bin thermostat and check that there is a circuit through the bin thermostat.
If necessary bridge the terminals on the bin thermostat to prove it is good.
Remember the BIN THERMOSTAT is the only control that stops the compressor from running, with the exception of the thermal over load on the compressor itself.
Next question did the machine work prior to all the work you have been doing to it?
If it did don't start re-wiring it.
Now please check the bin thermostat as I have said before this control will stop the operation of the compressor and the pump and is where you should test next if you have power in and out of the main switch (green) it is next in line and is the only control in the system to stop all the operations.
As I told you before the ice thickness thermostat you have ordered does not turn off the compressor it just controls the solenoid valve for the harvest cycle and also the water fill valve during the harvest cycle.
When you press the BLUE switch this by-passes the bin stat and puts a supply onto the water pump just for the the clean out nothing more.

xbox40489

20-06-2012, 02:23 PM

The reason I start rewiring. Is because the machine blew some fuses of the current box.

So I might have rewired something to test before. But the machine was working 100% before.

So I need to start checking the wiring at the green button first. Or the blue button. But you said it is irrelevant to a working ice maker.

As it turns off the compressor. And switches on the pump.

I also pointed out. The cutter grid is getting higher then expected voltage. 50V I recalled instead of the 18V required measured with my multimeter.

Continuity was ok.

xbox40489

21-06-2012, 05:39 AM

Well if you said the thickness stat does not stop the compressor from working. I have it detached and still nothing goes on when the Green switch is pressed.
But this was already the case when the thickness stat was on it and I tried to unplug it but the capillar broke.

I will need to go check the continuity further. Why the compressor/pump does not start.

Thanks for your time thinking about this.

B G Scott

21-06-2012, 07:39 AM

xbox40489

21-06-2012, 01:57 PM

Ok I'll report later after I try The joining of the cables of the bin stat.

xbox40489

24-06-2012, 07:11 AM

Today I started the ice maker on the greenbutton without the ice thickness stat.
It is removed.

The water started to pour through into the tank.

Meaning the solenoid is letting water in.

I have not done anything else. And also the blue button does not work now. The pump dont start spinning.

How can I still join on the cables on the thickness stat together?

You suggested connecting it back? And then try it on joined on?

What cables do I need to join together?

The cables that are parallel together? The other one is the ground.

Let me know to do an experiment tomorrow.

xbox40489

24-06-2012, 07:18 AM

i'll post a video on youtube of the test, I can record with my ipod.

install monkey

24-06-2012, 08:32 AM

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?yci0t0fp80nvt6n
k20 parts list and wiring diagram

xbox40489

07-07-2012, 05:36 AM

Guys,

I received the parcel from Catering Parts UK today and went right ahead to install the thickness thermostat.

I even added some tubing to the capillar for protection.(see the pictures in the attachment)

But the result is the same. The compressor does not start at the press of the green button.

I have shot a video after installing the thickness stat. To show how the icemaker is right now. And how it reacts when the green button is pushed and when the blue button is pushed. I promised to record a video when troubleshooting, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqGCYgDChY

I think I need to do a the cables joining together to test the machine, what color should I join together?

From the icethickness stat u have the ground. The blue and the red and black button.

Should I try to join the black/black and blue cable and give it a go?

Also I got shocked when touching the icemaker surface when the machine is plugged in. This should be the case I think. Can this be related to my problem?

It means the case is shortcircuited...

Let me know.

90939094

xbox40489

07-07-2012, 06:19 AM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E5c7qOVPFr4

Here is THE rotated video sorry For THE uploaden down one

xbox40489

07-07-2012, 06:20 AM

Uploaden = upsidedown

Damn autocorrect.

xbox40489

07-07-2012, 08:50 PM

Once again have you checked that the BIN thermostat is closed, if you look at the back of the machine you will see a knob with a sun and a snow flake on it, this is the bin stat.
Just to test if it is OK or not, remove the wires and temporarily join them together and then see if the pump and compressor starts.

I needed to take a look at the BIN thermostat. And I also did the Ice thickness thermostat.

I joined both, the result is still the same. Not working not starting the compressor.

And the videos are here:

ice maker ignis blizzard k20 ice thickness thermostat joined together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYMYVqxU6Ko

icemaker ignis blizzard k20 Bin thermostat joined on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAKw-a7QAf8

xbox40489

08-07-2012, 03:48 AM

Sorry I had all the video on youtube set on private, which you wont be able to see until i have changed it unlisted. I did that a minute ago to unlisted.

All of them should be working right now.

Thanks again.

xbox40489

09-07-2012, 06:26 AM

Does no one respond to this thread no more? Or everyone is on summer vacation?

xbox40489

11-07-2012, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by B G Scott View Post
Once again have you checked that the BIN thermostat is closed, if you look at the back of the machine you will see a knob with a sun and a snow flake on it, this is the bin stat.
Just to test if it is OK or not, remove the wires and temporarily join them together and then see if the pump and compressor starts.

===
I needed to take a look at the BIN thermostat according to BG Scott. And I also did the Ice thickness thermostat.

I joined both, the result is still the same. Not working not starting the compressor.

And the videos are here are the results:

ice maker ignis blizzard k20 ice thickness thermostat joined together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYMYVqxU6Ko

icemaker ignis blizzard k20 Bin thermostat joined on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAKw-a7QAf8

xbox40489

21-07-2012, 07:58 AM

hi sirs,

please anyone can help me out?

install monkey

21-07-2012, 09:32 AM

Will have a look at ur videos when i get home and see if i can come up with anything - about 4-5hrs

install monkey

21-07-2012, 02:22 PM

post 30 refers to when you got a belt of the casing-youve changed the bin stat,thickness stat, tested the push button, the wiring diagram is a pain in the arse- but here goes,since you move it it doesnt make ice, as there is a bit of weight in lugging the k20 about then are you getting a belt still or was that when you were just bypassing the stat- (both stats are earthed on my diagram ) my diagram shows a glass fuse- test power in and out to prove ok, (glass fuses sometimes appear ok when visually inspected)
have u took the cover off the comp electrics and test if ur getting 240v onto the klixon and relay on blue and black- also the hot gas solonoid is at the back of the cabinet ,have u knocked a connection off that?- as they usually touch the back access plate.

xbox40489

29-07-2012, 07:34 AM

I took out the ice cutter grill and i am going to check it out tomorrow for continiuty!

If it is nothing wrong with it.

Then I need to check the voltage on the transformer which gives more volts then required(19V)

xbox40489

29-07-2012, 07:35 AM

And if that transformer is busted it is expensive to replace!

I will think. I need to check other things too but nobody here can help me to make a step by step troubleshooting?|

install monkey

29-07-2012, 11:02 AM

you can see if the cutter grid is faulty- there would be a break in the wire-
transformer only serves the cutter grid- check the wiring on the switches, -have you checked the relay hasnt fell off the compressor pins-get the wiring diagram printed and enlarged and mark where you have power and follow it through-after all you only moved it so it will prob be a wire that fell off

I took out the ice cutter grill and i am going to check it out tomorrow for continiuty!

If it is nothing wrong with it.

Then I need to check the voltage on the transformer which gives more volts then required(19V)

xbox40489

29-07-2012, 10:09 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txD0E_2i64o

Here is the video, sorry for filming it upside, next time i try the sideways again.

Like you can see I took it out for nothing as it was working properly.

I will have to check the relays on the compressor yes. But I tried to give the compressor power directly by giving it 220V and it started.

By the way how did you like my ice thickness install pictures? I think I did a good job.

So how can I check the relays again on the side of the compressor?

Should I do this test this guy is doing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kK9cJtgCXo

Let me know

install monkey

29-07-2012, 10:49 PM

dont bother checking the relay- if your not gettin power to the relay then the compressor isnt going to start, did you check the hot gas valve at the back to see if its ok

xbox40489

29-07-2012, 11:38 PM

you are suggesting replacing the fuse? of just test if it is getting 240V which cables? blue and black?

i can check it with the multimeter quick if you request that.

xbox40489

29-07-2012, 11:38 PM

by the way i am available on skype palm40489 if you really want to be a help!

install monkey

29-07-2012, 11:54 PM

the drawing i have shows 3 internal fuses-listed as no 11, switch off and unplug-set your meter to continuity or so it beeps when probes are touching ,just to prove fuses are ok, 20mm glass fuses can look ok but could be faulty

xbox40489

30-07-2012, 04:45 PM

A stupid question...how do I check that gas valve? Where is it located?

Do you mean the heating element for the evaporator to melt the ice hence getting the slab of ice loose from the evaporator to slide to the ice cutter? And if so what do you want me to check of the hot gas valve?

I found some dents in the icemaker after the move so it have gotten a shock during moving.

Which might explain the non functioning?

xbox40489

30-07-2012, 04:59 PM

so you want me to turn on the icemaker and test if there is 240V between the black and the blue cable?(A)

And also to prove the fuses are ok i need to check continuity between the fuse?(B)

9130

xbox40489

30-07-2012, 05:15 PM

k20 ignis blizzard continuity test of the fuse (B)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1DDJdlaUNQ

I did unplug the fuse quick and did a continuity test on the video above.

The fuse seems oke to me.

As for the voltage of 240V (A)between the blue wire and the black wire I have to test still.

install monkey

30-07-2012, 06:15 PM

sorry in the uk k20's defrost via a small solonoid valve at the back of the unit sending hot gas through the evap, never seen 1 with an electric heater instead.

xbox40489

30-07-2012, 11:24 PM

this should be the same? The capillar is being heated by the electric heater like u say.

We are talking about the same thing don't worry.

I meant this:

9131

What do you want me to test on this again?

install monkey

30-07-2012, 11:44 PM

yep-thats it the hot gas valve just check that the crimp connectors are on the coil and not touching the casing

xbox40489

31-07-2012, 01:25 AM

I also forget to tell you that we have 220V here and it is mostly 60 Hz here in St Maarten.

But I think it hardly matters in this case. Because if it would be a motor it will spin faster of slower when you have a difference in Hz. For the icemaker the electronics would have to subject to 60 Hz and the 220V it is given.

xbox40489

31-07-2012, 01:50 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJ-72N0XWI

ignis blizzard icemaker K20 Hot Gas Coil

I took my ipod and filmed it how it was connected.

It is looking good too. It does not touch the casing to me. But in the daylight I can film in a better lightning if you want a clearer video.

But me it is not touching any other sourrounding thing.

It has been working in that position before it has been moved. Does it matter what side you stick the coiler onto the pipe? or there is only one position? It heats it only so I dont see the problem in reversing it.

Let me know what else to film or to check. I post it quick.

install monkey

31-07-2012, 10:02 PM

looks ok.
right back to the start- when you start the machine up -in ice mode, the wash pump starts,the compressor doesnt,does the condenser fan start?
youve checked the fuses,you are getting 240v to the cutter grid transformer- maybe 19v more but still power there.
youve changed the bin stat,ice thickness stat
does the hot gas solonoid energise?

xbox40489

01-08-2012, 02:02 AM

pump dont even start.

the wash pump starts,

-Does not start

the compressor doesnt,

-Compressor does not start.

does the condenser fan start?

Condenser fan does not start.

youve checked the fuses,

Fuses are oke, I unplugged the fuse in the video above and checked for continuity. And it went well.

you are getting 240v to the cutter grid transformer- maybe 19v more but still power there.

youve changed the bin stat,ice thickness stat

-It is changed now, because I broke off the capillarwhen I was checking the Old binstat. But ordered a new one and replaced it all nice and set to go. The pics are above in this threath as well.

does the hot gas solonoid energise?

This I need to check.

I think I will film the machine when I press the green button in for you to see. Give me a minute or 10!

xbox40489

01-08-2012, 02:54 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwrqFM2jvRo

ignis blizzard k20 pump is working, Condenser fan is spinning green and blue button are pressed. The video is seen on the link above. The ice maker is plugged in 220V.

I follow up later with(videos of) the testing of the transformer.

xbox40489

01-08-2012, 03:11 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE3PXhHWUc8

The link above shows ignis blizzard k20 and I am testing the 220 V coming in on the transformer with a multimeter.

It is being powered and the next video I show the output of it, which is ok and working fine with a 17.6 V. It asks for 18V but it is ok.

xbox40489

01-08-2012, 03:21 AM

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&video_id=_iDoJfiQ-wE

ignis blizzard k20 testing the cutter grid with 17.3V( needs to be 18 V but anyways) from the transformer with a multimeter.

I so far have also checked the cutter grid for continuity which is seen on the video above.

Let me know what else to test.

Maybe power between something when the green button is pressed in!

Let me know and I will test it and post a video of it here.

xbox40489

01-08-2012, 03:26 AM

does the hot gas solonoid energise?

This one I can check tomorrow.

What color cable i have to put the multimeter pins in between?9135

I guess from the picture above I need to put the green button on and put the pins between the Blue and the Black/red cables?

I'll post my results tomorrow in yet another video.

xbox40489

01-08-2012, 03:39 AM

update:

The hot gas solonoid does not energise, when I have the greenbutton on!

May this be my problem?

Does it have to be energized? I thought it has to be energised only at the end of each cycle, where the evaporator needs to be hot to get the ice slab lose.

Does it have to be energised all the time? I'll take my time and post the video in a short while.

I think the first thing tomorrow that I need to check is the continuity of those two cables. I am talking about the "blue cable" and the "red/black cable".

By the way the ground cable(yellow/green) of the hot gas solonoid goes to the bottom of the casing! It is screwed on a screw that is on the bottom panel.

xbox40489

01-08-2012, 03:55 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPJlbVsUAto

ignis blizzard k20 testing the hot gas solenoid for energising(220 V) when the green button is pressed.

When I press the green button on and off I can see the multimeter jumping on the display, like going high in numbers and back to 0.

I think I jammed the multimeter pins good enough inside the plugs so they stay in and touch the metal. If it was energised I would see it on the multimeter.

xbox40489

01-08-2012, 08:08 PM

#63

The drain pipe you see in the video is also replaced when I bought this machine and found out it was leaking. It cost me an arm and a leg to have it replaced. That is why it looks white(new) and the rest of it looks dirtier.

So far I have replaced the drain pipe, ice thickness thermostat, the t shaped pipe that gives you the water onto the evaporator. And I also bought a new drain hose that fitted the machine. Altogether 4 pieces bought. And the price I bought it for 446,25 euros with shipping to the NL. I was living then in the NL.

I cleaned all the other stuff and the machine self thoroughly with vinegar diluted in some water and scrubbed with baking soda.

To make this a working machine again. I bought a waterfilter also with the pipes and hoses needed.

But after the move to St Maarten the machine was not working no more.

I can use some ice cubes here because it is very sunny and hot here.

That is a little back story of the machine.

xbox40489

05-08-2012, 04:49 AM

9164

I think I might have found the problem.

In the picture you see the H9 Ice Quantity Thermostat. Check the scheme you gave me.

What I saw today is where I circled in the picture I saw copper. Which means it is broken, if the Ice Quantity Thermostat's capillar is broken off.

I need to yet order another part and have it replaced. Beh!

Another chunk of my wallet to have it replaced. If I knew these guys that handled my ice maker was going to be so this rough on the shipping I would have taken those capillar thermostats out of the machine and have it protected before shipping. It could also be the age of it. This machine looks old indeed. And also the climate change have to do with the broken capillars. Also some rough handling maybe by me.

Are there no US seller for these parts? I am always ordering from the UK!

I think this will fix the problem. Cause if the Ice Quantity Thermostat is broken. It tells the machine to shutdown forever.

Which is probably what it is doing right now because my capillar is broken?

How can I still use the machine without replacing the Ice Quantity Thermostat?

Maybe you can help me with this.
9166
H9 is the Ice Quantity Thermostat.

It has connection like X1(Thermostat Earthing)

It has 00 which the Black in the scheme.

It has 12 which is the Brown and Red, it leads to the Wash switch!

How can I bypass the Ice Quantity Thermostat and make it work all the time?

By connecting these cables? 12(Brown and Red) and the 00(Black)?

Let me know.

The full scheme again is here:
9165

I am right now going to check how to order the Ice Quantity Thermostat on ebay and have it delivered in a few weeks. But maybe if I can already use it without the stat that would be wonderfull.

It needs to be replaced anyway.

Let me know.

I printed out the scheme out of your url today and started tracing back the cables. This lead me to find the broken capillar on the Ice Quantity Thermostat.

nike123

05-08-2012, 07:39 AM

This thread is school example of troubleshooting mess.

First you need good electric diagram which is of functional sort and not wiring layout which you found on cover of ice-maker.

Here is proper electric diagram for troubleshooting:

9168

Now, when you got that, you can see that, in order to compressor start, you need to have circuit closed at power switch S5 (pressed), Wash swicth 0 (depresed), ice bin thermostat H9 , and overload relay of compressor G .

Any of those contacts open and you cannot start compressor.
Also, if Ice bin thermostat is open, there is no power to solenoids and fan and pump.

At the beginning of cooling cycle, after you start unit first time without water in it, it will not take water until ice thickness thermostat opens its contacts at temperature of -8 to -15 depending of setting of that thermostat. Compressor fan and water pump is working (on dry) during that time. Only after evaporator reaches temperature between -8 to -15 (after 10-15 min.) and switch over to off position, solenoid valve is energized and ice machine takes its first water in, and hot gas defrost valve is energized, and heating of evaporator starts. After evaporator reaches +2°C, ice thickness thermostat switch on, solenoid valves are de-enrgized, water is no longer getting in, and hot gas valve is closed. Pump is energized and cooling of water starts. That is beginning of first ice making cycle. Compressor is energized whole time until ice bin thermostat calls for cooling.

Therefore, you could bridge wires which goes to ice bin thermostat in order to test proper function of rest of ice-maker.

I personally love simplicity of this ice-maker against Icematic but make sure that is connected to water supply through limescale depurator. My first choice.

xbox40489

05-08-2012, 08:43 PM

Hi nike123,

I do like the simplicity of this machine too. So therefore I was putting time into fixing it.

On the cover of my machine I got this scheme. Yours I have not seen anywhere on the machine. It must be from a manual.

http://db.tt/Gor6CnyC

A stupid question, how do I bridge the wires of ice bin thermostat? By just connecting these cables? 12(Brown and Red) and the 00(Black)?

9175

Filter

To avoid limescale and having to clean it again with baking soda and vinegar diluted in some water. I opted for a filter system(EVERPURE-4H) after the clean. It does still smell funny though. Although it is clean.

4H Everpure Activated Carbon Water Filter EVERPURE-4H 1 € 40.25
Capacity of the 4H filter is 1500 gallons (5,678 L).

9176

Let me know. I just ordered the ice bin thermostat. So that will arrive in 2 weeks time. In the meantime I can use your way of bypassing it to troubleshoot it.

xbox40489

05-08-2012, 09:22 PM

All in all gentlemen, I had the bad luck of with capillars that were broken! In both Thermostats(ice thickness thermostat (£32,94 with shipping from CateringParts uk ebay)and the ice quantity thermostat(£33,98 with shipping from CateringParts uk ebay))spots! I had to replace these and I am almost about 90 euros poorer combined because of this.

Discounting the also replaced items of:

-Whirlpool K20 K40 Drain Tube 3 Way
£28.54 with shipping from abcdirect2u.co.uk

-k20 PARTS - PHILIPS WHIRLPOOL ICE MACHINE WATER SPRAY BAR (130391686293)( the old one is still here but one side was just broken where you screw it, so I replaced it with a new one) From amount €28,63 EUR
To amount £23,98 GBP with shipping from CateringParts uk ebay
Exchange rate: 1 Euro = 0,837582 British Pounds

-K 20 Drain Hose: Whirlpool(I did not have this so I had to buy a drain tube) £21.45 with shipping from CateringParts uk ebay

It is hard to troubleshoot if those capillars are broken somewhere(probably during the shipping, or I can blame the sudden climate change(it's hot here)). It won't pass on the go to any ice production!

So in total for now I did 5 replacements for now!

Let's tally the costs:

32.94 ice thickness thermostat
33.98 ice quantity thermostat
28.54 Whirlpool K20 K40 Drain Tube 3 Way
23.98 k20 PARTS - PHILIPS WHIRLPOOL ICE MACHINE WATER SPRAY BAR
21.45 K 20 Drain Hose: Whirlpool +
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
140.89 GBP = 177.369 EUR

On top of the 446,25 euros spend on the machine with shipping.

xbox40489

05-08-2012, 10:37 PM

917791789179

Hooray!

Bridging the Ice Quantity Thermostat worked for me. Check the pictures attached.

I have another question about the vents.

Do these vents on each side of the k20 have to be mounted facing down or facing up? I can't think right now.

I think hot air goes up so I guess up? I will need to correct them if it needs to be facing up!

A google in 2 seconds answered my question:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Should_home_air_conditioning_vents_blow_the_air_up_or_down
Facing up both sides!

xbox40489

06-08-2012, 04:18 AM

Vents are facing up now!

xbox40489

06-08-2012, 04:19 AM

Does anyone know the size of those screws used in this k20 ice maker?

I might start to replace most of the screws! That gone rusty or bad as a next project.

xbox40489

06-08-2012, 09:27 AM

I didnt know all of this,

So basicly the ice thickness thermostat is on and waits untill it reaches -8° C to -15° C to turn off.

Then basicly the step of filling water comes in and losing up the slab of ice comes in.

Which means the solenoid opens up for the water to come in and the hot gas coil does it's heating to loosen the ice slap up.

When this evaporator reaches +2° C, then this triggers the Thickness Thermostat on. Therefore shutting off the solenoid off which stops the water as well.

The fresh water also flushes out impure water. And get open solenoid means a fresh batch of pure and impure water comes in to make the mix less impure. Because this water was flushed through the drain pipe for that moment the solenoids is on.

Which also closes the hot gas coil.

Then the cycle of making ice comes back in motion.

You can make a flowchart of this. But yeah I get the idea.

How bad is a Icematic?

I got a problem with white ice(unclear ice blocks)! Which means ice forms impurely(white colored). I know that only pure water poured over the evaporator forms you the nice clear ice blocks. And this happens at 0° C and it will only happen to water without any minerals(pure water). As the process repeats because of the pump that pumps the water through the evaporator, layer for layer. It means also that a tank full of water with a lot of minerals is left when the ice slab is done. But this clears up because a new batch of water is introduced to the mix in the tank, which also make the full tank overflow the excess. Making it a fresher batch of water each cycle of ice making.

When you have spot on the evaporator that is super cold under 0° C. Let's say -5° C, mineral full type of water flowing on this spot will form the white ice spot. This is because impure water needs a colder temperature form ice.

This spot is on the right side of the evaporator where the compressor pipe (cold air from the compressor)is attached to the evaporator which is below the evaporator. I guess that spot is too cold below 0°C at least to let mineral full water have the chance to form.

So as a result I get a slab of clear ice and on that spot I always get spot with white colored ice.

Do you have advice for this? It is really not a big deal as for 5% of the ice cubes coming out will be white instead of see through clear ice.

And as for the limescale depurator. As I said I have been filtering my water since I cleaned it with the Everpure set.

The item I ordered is being shipped from the UK to my country tomorrow. So soon it will be back to normal.

xbox40489

07-08-2012, 11:49 PM

9210

I ordered a ice quantity thermostat with 2 screws, instead of the one ring to attach it. It's oke because all of those icemaker panels on the back have holes for these thermostats.

My question is now what size are those screws? I need to run to the hardware store and get me some screws that look like it.

And also another question is where do you run the capillar on that ice quantity thermostat?

Like in the picture of more on the left side of the box? and then over the box over the ice cutter grid and then down?

Let me know the propper way to install it. Not that it much matters. But i wanted to know.

xbox40489

08-08-2012, 08:44 AM

92129213

I ran into another wall.

The ice thickness thermostat I installed, the capillar pipe end attached under the evaporator. That seemed lose after I stuck my hand under there and felt it was moving. Meaning the gas in the capillar will never properly get cold enough to tell the ice thickness thermostat to stop it. Like nike123 at around -8° C to -15° C. I felt the capillar on the ice thickness thermostat after having it run for few hrs. Nothing it felt warm not cold at all.

So tomorrow I will tighten the screw nut nail(hexagon) a little bit that sandwiches the capillar pipe of the ice thickness thermostat.

I don't have the good size wrench for this screw nut nail.

It seems like I have a small size 8 mm wrench at home and I tried it and it felt a bit lose.

Maybe it is 7 mm or 6 mm. But not sure. Can someone verify this for me?

Frustrating that still that installation of the ice thickness thermostat went bad. I had to tighten it harder in order for the capillar to feel the coldness of the evaporator.

Any tips are welcome. I will run out to the hardware store to get me a 6 or 7 mm wrench.

xbox40489

10-08-2012, 05:43 AM

It was a 7 mm nut. I tighten it a little bit more then it was.

The ice bin thermostat supposed to be on it's way. I ordered it a few days ago.

I also recorded a video under the evaporator after an hour or two with the machine making ice.

It looks like it is struggling to make ice. The water is cold. The compressor seems to do it's job.

I will post a video of it tomorrow. I think the capillar is more then making contact so when it reaches -8C to -15C it will energise the icethickness thermostat and then energise the hot gas valve.

Then to release the ice slab.

But i just bridge the ice bin thermostat for now to test the machine.

My judgement is that compared to where I bought it. In Holland, here is pretty tropical weather.

In Holland it made the ice with no problem but then again the room temperature is also lower.

Here it is 25-30 C all day. To me after 2 hrs you at least have had one cycle. Which in the video I am going to post tomorrow you will see it is struggling to make the ice.

Can it be the plate needs cleaning?

Also in the video you will see the nut that attaches the plate to clam the capillar together is not iced.

All but that. I think the gas is getting warm by the hot air coming out of the vents. I have it in a small room and also close to a wall. Not much clearance.

maybe 10 cm clearance for hot air to go up. And as I have the cover off the hot air is brushing by the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat. Which in return makes that plate with the 7 mm nut not get frozen as the evaporator.

Not sure. I might have to or clean the evaporator or have to leave the machine breathe with more clearance.

I'll post the video of my ice making result right here tomorrow.

It the r134a gas charge not doing it's job enough? For me I have seen it work harder. For real.

Or I should test the machine when the new bin thermostat comes in.

Anyone got a suggestion in the meantime?

xbox40489

10-08-2012, 07:13 PM

Here are the videos guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef9JsZOo2UU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXLB_HfqlN4

install monkey

10-08-2012, 08:04 PM

it should cool the water within 5 minutes and produce ice after 45 minutes, then the slab should be 8-10mm thick then slowly turn up the ice thickness stat till it clicks for defrost,make sure the slab clears the flap and lands on the cutter grid- make sure the condenser coil is clean,on the face and within the coil- best thing is compressed air to blast the crap away from inside-a paint brush will only clean the face of the coil

xbox40489

10-08-2012, 08:56 PM

hey install monkey you are still following my thread.

Well I got a next problem. The ice thickness stat never gets to click and stop the cycle.

Maybe it is too hot around the icemaker.

The ice bin thermostat missing and bridge shouldnt affect the ice thickness stat's job?

Well I got no compressed air around i need to buy it.

I can tell you right now already that the condenser coil is full of crap!

What do you suggest me to look for in the hardware store? a can of compressed air(those u clean the keyboard with?

By the way I tighten the nut that clams up the capillar under the evaporator already so it can "feel" the coldness when the ice gets super thick.

Is there anything else I should check? Maybe my piece of plastic around the capillar is too tight, then I should take it off(but if off then with small scissors).

The plastic around the ice bin thermostat is way bigger(diameter) then the one I used on the ice thickness thermostat.

install monkey

10-08-2012, 09:06 PM

any sleeve over the evap stat will help as long as its just the bare capillary tube as its secured to the evap via the lil rectangular clamp- it may just be under performing with the dirty condenser- and yes get a can of the compressed air for keyboards etc-stick the straw in the end and spray the condenser coil on the accessible side, have the machine running when you do this as it will stop the dust from settling again nearby- make sure the misses doesnt catch you doing this as it can get messy and women dont like mess- also when its cleaned run it with the lid sat on top as it keeps the evap area cooler,see how that goes

xbox40489

11-08-2012, 02:42 AM

Ok this time I took out the side panel of the coil side.

You know what else? A small fridge is under the icemaker. And I took out the 4 legs of the icemaker so it does not have any clearance from below.

The coil is very rusty and old.

I put the lid on top of it and gave it water. Hopefully it will run better now isolated from the hot air in the room.

i will post the results later on in a video.

- Right now I am 20 min in. The bin area feels cold. When you use it with the hood off and the door open it takes a while i guess to form the ice? Too much heat coming inside.

9221

xbox40489

11-08-2012, 04:56 AM

9:43

-

11:39(made the video at that time)

In this interval with the hood closed and the side panel off.

The ice maker made a nice slab of thick ice when I uncovered the hood.

The only thing it needed to do is to change cycle.

Maybe the capillar is shot! One thing is for sure the capillar on the ice thickness thermostat was not cold enough to trigger the stop of the cycle.

Or the other ice quantity thermostat(which is ordered and on it's way) has to be in place and 100 % instead of being bridged all the time. i have put a cable to bridge it so it can start.

I hope it is not the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat. It was a pain to remove or to install.

I will upload the video showing the cycle tomorrow.

xbox40489

11-08-2012, 05:32 AM

Here below is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYe0mEUuO2o

Maybe I just need wait for the ice bin thermostat to arrive and install it and then I can try to retest.

xbox40489

11-08-2012, 05:10 PM

I do remember another thing on the ice thickness thermostat.

There was isolation piece. Does this piece have to be under the capillar like this:

evaporator

capillar

isolator piece

Because I suspect I got it like this:

evaporator

isolator piece

capillar

This way the capillar won't be cooled enough to trigger the end of the cycle.

If this is the problem then I will need to go and unscrew it and correct the order.

Look at this test run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ef9JsZOo2UU#t=46s

Do you see the whole area not getting frozen.

xbox40489

11-08-2012, 09:42 PM

9227922892299230

I opened the plate to recheck today the piece of plastic or isolation is under the capillar pipes. I see the traces of it from the old one.

I reattached it.

One thing I noticed is that the screw on the new ice thickness thermostat is inside. Is it like this?

The other one the old one somehow I put it back outside. But that have a broken capillar already to begin with.

Let me know.

xbox40489

12-08-2012, 03:48 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzAvSZ5Gt7I

Again I let it run it ice slab turns thick but the machine won't go into defrost mode. The new Ice thickness thermostast might be shot.

Or the reason it is not going into the defrost mode as before is because I always have a bridged ice bin thermostat this mode makes sure the compressor is on and the pump is running and is making sure it keeps making ice instead of jumping into defrost mode after a while.

xbox40489

12-08-2012, 04:32 AM

Ok guys I studied the scheme nike123 send me.

9231

I figured. I have the missing part in the pic the ice quantity thermostat bridged!
So what it means it the pump and the compressor will never ever have a chance to turn off.

This is what it was doing these two days. But I did check as you can see the machine is making clear ice but the right side of it where it gives you a bit of white ice.

The item ordered which is missing is in, i tracked it and it should be available at the post office.
I am going to check it out this week and replace it and retest the machine.

Hopefully all back to normal. Fingers crossed.

xbox40489

12-08-2012, 04:39 AM

Still I am wondering.

I have an idea how the ice thickness thermostat works. But really can someone explain this?

The gas inside the capillar expands or shrink. And therefore triggers the treshold the thermostat is set on.

Say in this case between -18C/-15 C and 2 C.

I dont know but if it needs to be -15 to trigger at least can i feel it from the outside of the capillar? Or the sensor on the thermostat feels the pressure inside the capillar and certain amount of pressure amounts to the -15 C or the 2C.

Did I explain it good?

Let me know.

nike123

12-08-2012, 08:29 AM

There was isolation piece. Does this piece have to be under the capillar like this:

evaporator

capillar

isolator piece

That is correct order

If this is the problem then I will need to go and unscrew it and correct the order.

Yep!

nike123

12-08-2012, 08:38 AM

Turn the ice thickness thermostat counterclockwise until the end position and check if icemaker goes to ice harvest (defrost) phase. Then, after it is make few thin ice slabs, move thermostat by 5° (angle, not temperature) and wait to make new ice slab. Repeat that until you got desired thickness. Don't go thicker than 1cm.

xbox40489

12-08-2012, 07:49 PM

nike123:

you want it to go to the minus side.

I have not tried touching the dail during ice making.

But the ice bin thermostat is always on(I have this device bridged in order for the machine to run! So when the times comes to switch to defrost cycle even it will be forever bridged for now. So nothing will change untill I replace this one with a new one which is coming in soon via mail. After I replace it I allow it to switch to defrost cycle which the solenoids let waters in and the hot gas thing turns on to let the slab of ice melt to fall into the ice cutter grid. I think I concluded this after two runs. If I am wrong let me know).

So I think it might have to do with it not going into the defrost cycle?

Study your own diagram posted me nike123.

xbox40489

12-08-2012, 07:51 PM

xbox40489

13-08-2012, 04:36 AM

But the ice bin thermostat is always on(I have this device bridged in order for the machine to run! So when the times comes to switch to defrost cycle even it will be forever bridged for now. So nothing will change untill I replace this one with a new one which is coming in soon via mail. After I replace it I allow it to switch to defrost cycle which the solenoids let waters in and the hot gas thing turns on to let the slab of ice melt to fall into the ice cutter grid. I think I concluded this after two runs. If I am wrong let me know).

nike123

13-08-2012, 09:12 AM

i will give it that try nike123 and it if does not go into defrost cycle then I will wait for the bin full thermostat to come in and retry it.If anything send the ice thickness thermostat back to the seller in the uk!But the new one ice thickness thermostat I have a screw that is inside? Does it have to be like this?Also can someone explain how does this thermostat work?

You don't need to wait for bin thermostat to be able to troubleshoot further. Bin full thermostat does not have any impact on defrost.

When ice thickness is sufficient and ice thickness thermostat is set to corresponding evaporator temperature, thermostat must switch to OFF position and energise 3way solenoid (and fresh water valve solenoid), and start defrost process.

If it does not do that, with decent ice slab on evaporator, even at lowest thickness setting, than ice thickness thermostat is faulty or its capillary is not sensing evaporator temperature as it should.

Regarding screw, I cannot tell you for now, but today i will going to change one same thermostat, and i will let you know how it should be.

xbox40489

14-08-2012, 07:36 AM

You don't need to wait for bin thermostat to be able to troubleshoot further. Bin full thermostat does not have any impact on defrost.

When ice thickness is sufficient and ice thickness thermostat is set to corresponding evaporator temperature, thermostat must switch to OFF position and energise 3way solenoid (and fresh water valve solenoid), and start defrost process.

If it does not do that, with decent ice slab on evaporator, even at lowest thickness setting, than ice thickness thermostat is faulty or its capillary is not sensing evaporator temperature as it should.

Regarding screw, I cannot tell you for now, but today i will going to change one same thermostat, and i will let you know how it should be.

I know it wont affect the ice thickness thermostat. But then again I got the damn ice quantity thermostat forever bridged!

And without it it wont run.

So I will say in order for the machine to change cycle and energise other solenoid and others you need to unbridge the ice bin thermostat in order it to work normal.

Oh you do this daily as a job? You seen my machine, it is making beautiful ice. But in a slow pace.

What is faulty are those thermostat.

I just need to have patience wait for the ice bin thermostat to come in and have it installed to troubleshoot further like you said.

But If I can understand the figure you send with the red line I drew and the black line representing the bridge:

A bridged ice bin thermostat forever powers on the compressor! Scroll to the right with your cursor to see the compressor(D1)

Check this out:

9233

Also if the bottom green side decides to stop making ice at the ice thickness thermostat(H10). the freaking compressor will be still on with the bridge(black line up at H9) intact.

I might be wrong. I will need to reinstall a working H9 and remove the bridge(from H9) to troubleshoot some more.

xbox40489

14-08-2012, 11:52 PM

9234

I was thinking this above. Ignore the middle part. Whatever happens in the middle. Because I bridge it on the ice quantity thermostat(H9). If I unbridged the H9(triggers at a high temp treshold) the machine should turn off any ice making ability and have the circuit open. This is when the bin is full. And no ice making cycle is needed.

The same goes for in the middle the ice thickness thermostat(H10).

You are right by saying they are independant of each other.
If the H10 opens up which is when the temperature reaches a treshold of -8 C to -15C. Then in this case the defrost cycle kicks in. In which the topside(in red, H9(ice thickness thermosta), N1(pump motor) , N(fan motor) maybe also the compressor(D1) of the circuit stops and the lower side of the circuit start working. This I assume from the figure above.

Lower side consists of L10(thermostat heater), W1(water solenoid valve) and W2(gas magnetic valve). This is the defrost cycle.

Something never energises the lower part to switch to defrost cycle. Which is why you said it might be the ice thickness thermostat's fault. Taking in account that both of the stats are working indepently to turn off the machine's job.

Meaning it can turn off the machines in both cycles(ice making and the defrost cycle).

I'll have to test the machine with both stats intact to see if there is still no switching in cycle then it might be the ice thickness thermostat's fault the cycle is not changing.

xbox40489

15-08-2012, 07:53 AM

dfkhdsfkdhsf remove this post!dd

xbox40489

15-08-2012, 11:08 PM

dfkhdsfkdhsf remove this post!

xbox40489

15-08-2012, 11:13 PM

I tried to make a flowchart out of the processes needed in the ice making machine:

The 1 to 5 numbers are the checks for the ice bin full thermostat.
9252

nike123

17-08-2012, 08:00 AM

9230

One thing I noticed is that the screw on the new ice thickness thermostat is inside. Is it like this?

Yep, that is OK!

xbox40489

18-08-2012, 07:51 AM

Nah I got an e-mail from the seller on ebay in the uk.

He said one of the screw supposed to be on the inside and the other one on the outside on a ice thickness(he calls it, the evap coil stat) thermostat.

I went to my post office with a trackingcode, it has arrived but I can't have get it today. I can probably get it monday I was told. But I get a ride to the post office in town each friday. So I think next friday is when I get the parcel of the new ice quantity bin thermostat.

About the Ice thickness thermostat with it's screws. Here was the content of the mail on the positions of the scews:

Wednesday, August 15, 2012

had a look at those calibration screws, on the bin stat they are both inside, on the evap coil stat one inside and one outside.

- cateringparts

13-aug-12 14:32:10 CEST

Does one screw has to be in the inside and the other one On the outside?

Let me know this fact.

13-aug-12 11:50:42 CEST

Hello, those screws are calibration screws set at the factory so best not touching them, you need a digital contact probe and comparitor to set them up correctly.

- cateringparts

xbox40489

20-08-2012, 09:45 PM

92669267926892699270

I went to the post office this morning.

The parcel arrived.

I got pictures of the installation. I am not sure where else the capillar of the ice bin full thermostat should be tucked away.

But I used the Top Interior picture as a reference. It is someone else's icemaker.

I almost installed it as they did. Only my capillar is still not neatly tucked away in the box.

The cables seemed also pretty straight forward attached.

The black one for the bin full thermostat is facing the front panel. And the blue cable is facing the front panel. Just like the reference picture of the top interior picture.

I am giving it a test run now.

If the defrost cycle does not kick in. Then it should be replaced?

I have the dials right now on the minus(-) side for the ice thickness thermostat.

And the other one bin full thermostat I got it pointed on the sun symbol.

So fingers crossed or I need to yet replace the ice thickness thermostat because it does not go over to the defrost cycle.

xbox40489

20-08-2012, 10:30 PM

Install money and nike123:

Could it be the last thing the solenoid?

Cause the thermostats are changed. Why does it not go to defrost cycle?

xbox40489

21-08-2012, 12:29 AM

still no results, the ice is thick(i will upload video later) but the defrost cycle wont come.

Are you supposed to feel the cold at the end of the ice thickness thermostat? I mean the capillar has to be at least a bit cold on the sensor side?

I didnt check if the ice bin full shuts off when i put a piece of ice against it.

I should try that at least.

xbox40489

21-08-2012, 12:58 AM

I held a piece of ice against the bin stat thermostat and it shuts off the machine.

I take the ice off. Then within a minute it warms up and goes on again!

So that stat works.

The other one, the ice thickness thermostat I held a piece of ice on the capillar on the sensor side and the machine does not change to defrost cycle!

I think I need to exchange the ice thickness thermostat!

xbox40489

21-08-2012, 05:15 AM

I went ahead and ordered a new ice thickness thermostat. Couldn't wait for them to reply for returns.

I will try to return the current one in the meantime.

But is it evident that the problem lies by the ice thickness thermostat?

I guess that is what changes the cycle, so it should be the ice thickness thermostat which is kaput!

Even though it works(without changing cycle to defrost cycle) with the kaput one I ordered.

xbox40489

21-08-2012, 07:12 AM

If I get the new thickness thermostat tomorrow how would be an easy way to test it out before installing it in the plate?

xbox40489

21-08-2012, 05:25 PM

By the way I am beyond the 60 days retour policy they have at cateringparts uk. The return period is 30 days from purchase.

Bummer, anyway a new one is on it's way.

Nike123, does the treshold of the ice thickness thermostat starts at - 8 C(to -15 c)?

I think I can never do a test with a piece of ice. Cause that is less then -8 C? I might be not thinking clearly now.
A piece of ice can probably be lower then -8 C.

I was thinking to use a piece of ice to test the ice thickness thermostat right away when i have it in 2 weeks. To check if the defrost cycle will kick in.

xbox40489

21-08-2012, 11:28 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-d9qx7cZVU

I am in this video testing the both thermostat for them to trigger. Not sure if the ice thickness thermostat was tested properly this way. But never the less a new one is ordered and coming on it's way.
I will probably test it this way before I install it under the evaporator.

nike123

01-09-2012, 08:48 PM

You could test ice thickness thermostat by putting its capillary in glass of water together with thermometer (K-type probe, for example) and placing that glass in freezer of your home fridge-freezer or standalone freezer. After some time it will reach temperature of -8°C to -15°C and switch OFF. You should check (with lamp connected in series) at what temperature it switches.

If that does not produce switching of thermostat contacts, or switching is outside of range of -8°C to -15°C than thermostat is faulty.

If your ice is forming in slow manner (it should form 10-15 mm thick ice in 30-40 min.) than you probably have also inefficient compressor which could not decrease evaporation temperature below -13°C, and therefore cannot trigger defrost operation.

Then you should change compressor, filter-drier and capillary tube.

Good luck!

xbox40489

04-09-2012, 07:58 AM

Splendid idea. About the test. I found out though on the new capillar I have here. It has a dent in it. On the tip of the capillar which was attached to the plate. Maybe I overscrew it when installing. Seeing copper bends in.

Does this affect the pressure in the capillar?

We do have a small fridge with a small freezer section inside. But i think it will or will hardly go to -8 so easy?

The big freezer we have outside I can use too. But i think i wont touch that one as it dont belongs to us.

The small one I have 100% access too.

But to test if it goes under -8 to try your test to trigger. I need to check for a cheap thermometer. To measure the thermometer over time.

If it is going under -8 to -15C it is worth testing it.

A new thermostat was ordered but it was send to the wrong country. So more setbacks. I need to get my money back and see if I can get a new one to ship. But in the meantime is worth testing it that way you described.

Changing the compressor is not an option. It was working fine before as I said, so I doubt that is the problem.

I even kept a timetable it made ice:

cycle (time spend)

0:49
0:51
0:55
0:53

These are the cycles so far I had when it worked. But this is in The Netherlands. Where the ambient temperature is much more colder then here in the Caribbean.

xbox40489

04-09-2012, 08:02 AM

By the way your method is to insert the glass of water and the capillar in the freezer and take it out later when u have an iced glass of water with the capillar inside and then wait for it to defrost and then see with a lamp in serie if this will shut off of turn on?

sounds doable. but then i still need a thermometer.

xbox40489

05-09-2012, 05:43 AM

Small update:

I took off the red cable off the pump and put the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat back under the plate under the evaporator.

I left it running for around 38 min. No water no pump.

The ice formed from air.

I suspect the compressor cant get the plate under to it's -8 C temperature ever.

Also the pipe under the evaporator tunnel coming from outside(is this the hot gas coil)
This pipe stays neutral, this does not get cold when touched.

And does not have refrigerant in it. Because it's job is to warm up the evaporator?

Can I buy a digital thermometer and stick this under the plate of the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat. Just to see the temperature drop to -8C.

I think this is a good idea. But like I said for almost 35 min no pump on and no triggering to defrost mode.

xbox40489

13-09-2012, 04:53 AM

Small update 2:

The new ice bin thermostat is at the post office.

I need to run a test after I install it and slap a thermometer next to the capillars end. To see if the triggering happens at around -8C.

install monkey

13-09-2012, 08:46 PM

was this with the lid on? if i remember the cond coil was choked up so in turn the compressor will have been running hot so chance are it may have lost gas,if it has a schraeder charging stubb
Small update:

I took off the red cable off the pump and put the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat back under the plate under the evaporator.

I left it running for around 38 min. No water no pump.

The ice formed from air.

I suspect the compressor cant get the plate under to it's -8 C temperature ever.

Also the pipe under the evaporator tunnel coming from outside(is this the hot gas coil)
This pipe stays neutral, this does not get cold when touched.

And does not have refrigerant in it. Because it's job is to warm up the evaporator?

Can I buy a digital thermometer and stick this under the plate of the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat. Just to see the temperature drop to -8C.

I think this is a good idea. But like I said for almost 35 min no pump on and no triggering to defrost mode.

xbox40489

14-09-2012, 06:52 AM

9402
was this with the lid on? if i remember the cond coil was choked up so in turn the compressor will have been running hot so chance are it may have lost gas,if it has a schraeder charging stubb

schraeder charging stubb

You are talking in codes here.

Well I did not get to clean the condenser coil yet.

I plan to get the part tomorrow at the post office if not it will be monday.

I consider ebaying/or go buy at the local ace store something like this:

http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/50066807/Multi_Function_Digital_Thermometer_Module.jpg

http://www.asia.ru/en/ProductInfo/1155775.html

=============
Multi-Function Digital Thermometer Module

Our multi-function digital thermometer modules are used to measurethe temperature of refrigerators, fish bowls, etc.Specifications:1) Temperature range: -50oC~70oC2) Accuracy:a) ±0.1oC (10oC~50oC)b) ±0.2oC (oC and >50oC)3) Result: 0.1oC4) Display mode: LCD5) Display choice:oC oroF6) Battery: 1.5V Ag13Inner packing: boxDimensions: 77 x 61 x 18 (cm)G.W.: 32.8gOuter packing:240pcs/cartonDimensions: 36.5 x 32 x 26 (cm)N.W.: 7.8kgG.W.: 9.6kg
=============

So I can myself measure the temperature under that plate, If it is above the trigger temperature of -8C. Then I know it is the dirty coil and the other slightly on hot gas thing fault. Or that the compressor is not good enough.

But i doubt it because, last use in The Netherlands. All was working just fine. It is making ice and all. But again, we are in the tropics here and the ambience temperature in the icemaker wont allow a -8C. At least not so quickly.

xbox40489

20-09-2012, 02:04 AM

The new thermostat for the ice maker thickness arrived. I still need to replace the other one to test it.

But I would like to have a digital thermometer on the side to test out the trigger temperature.

Or I just replace it and do a test without one.

xbox40489

25-09-2012, 03:15 AM

I did a new test with the new thermostat for ice thickness.

Basicly the pump stopped pumping water after a while.

I found out the stop for the tank fell down and there was probably no water to be pumped so it went to freeze the whole thing.

But right now the pump stopped.

I dont have the water supply hose connected.

So I met the evaporator plate full of ice. white ice.

Not sure if this means the NEW ice thickness thermostat worked this time. But the pump stopped working.

But isnt the gas coil heater supposed to kick in and the defrost cycle kick in.

Not sure how to read this.

But I am letting it cool down and test it out another time probably with a water supply in.

I think the hot gas thing did not kick in.

xbox40489

25-09-2012, 03:23 AM

If the pump stopped did any thermostat tell it to stop?

Cause it is now in the defrost mode?

xbox40489

25-09-2012, 03:32 AM

Ok I left it to defrost and the pump is unblocked now. So the only thing that stops the pump is the ice thickness thermostat. It went up back to the 8 C and its free to spin.

And the compressor should be working too.

I attached back the stop of the watertank tightly this time filled the watertank with water and I am giving it another run.

I want to see it reach defrost mode....

xbox40489

25-09-2012, 05:28 AM

The machine seems to be stuck in the icemaking mode. it wont go to harvest mode(defrost mode)!

Cause it has been making ice for 1 hr and a half.

xbox40489

25-09-2012, 05:30 AM

but the no water thing did stop the pump from spinning! so what do i have to conclude from this? i need a thermometer to know what is going on the ice thickness thermostat.

xbox40489

25-09-2012, 05:57 AM

So the problem is mostly narrowed down to:

Anything preventing the harvest cycle to kick in, but not the ice thickness thermometer or the ice bin thermometer.

Could be the solenoid inlet valve?

Or the hot gas thing?

If I change the solenoid inlet valve i would have replaced almost the 3 items on top.

and als I can suspect my wiring?

But the machine makes thick a thick slap of ice but I can not collect it....even though it take time to do so.

Anything you guys can suggest next? Can someone check my wires for me? I think I have plenty of video and pics in this thread.

Also under the evaporator plate where the capillar is squeezed of the ice thickness thermometer the thing is like in ice! so it is cold enough.
==

It must be something that prevents the harvest cycle to come in.

Can you in a way make the harvest cycle kick in?

nike123

25-09-2012, 06:10 AM

Set ice thickness thermostat dial at middle position, close the lid, and if you have, put some ice in ice bin.
Then leave it like that about 1 hour and see if it works correctly.

It is very important that ice bin have some ice in it and that lid is at place since ice thickness thermostat is affected with these.

xbox40489

26-09-2012, 05:35 AM

94269427I test it all with the lid closed for close to 2 hrs! With no ice though.

Oh you mean the fact the pump stopped working is a sign the harvest mode was active for a while?

I do not have ice. What I can do is save up a plate of ice made by the ice maker. And test it.

How much Ice do you want me to put in the bin?

Besides isnt it easier to have a thermometer to monitor the temperature of the capillar?

by the way i checked the dial on the ice thickness thermostat.

It was all the way on the plus side(+). Check the picture I uploaded on this message.

It came out of the box like that.

And put the dial arrow pointing to 6 oclock, I think you meant middle by that. Middle of + and -.

I will get some ice before I test it your way!

==

To explain to you all as well about the location of this icemaker. The ice maker is situated in a room where there supposed to be a wasmachine. It is a small room with a few windows.

On top of that I got a table model refrigerator under the ice machine which is working. Meaning it will push out hot air from its own condensor coil!!

Which makes the room even more warmer!

So I see a lot of obstacles in this room for the capillar to reach its -8 C trigger to harvest mode.

I can unplug the fridge when the icemaker is running for a test.

xbox40489

13-10-2012, 02:20 PM

So i need to still give the icemaker another test with ice as nike123 suggested.

But can it be other stuff that broke? like the solenoid coil of the waterinletvalve? how can i test this item?

xbox40489

22-11-2012, 10:22 PM

What do you suggest me replace? nike123!

I can have an item send to me again.

Or dont spend more money on replacing items?

xbox40489

17-12-2012, 12:20 AM

I put a thermometer right inside the ice thickness thermostat spot underneath the evaporator.

The picture shows it reached -8+ C after less then 2 hrs and the slab of ice formed and all.

But the harvest cycle just wont kick in.

http://db.tt/l8PPxFNk

xbox40489

17-12-2012, 12:45 AM

http://db.tt/l8PPxFNkI put a digital thermometer's sensor right inside the ice thickness thermostat spot underneath the evaporator.

The picture shows it reached -8+ C after less then 2 hrs and the slab of ice formed and all.

But the harvest cycle just wont kick in.

xbox40489

19-12-2012, 11:26 AM

how can you test the harvest cycle can someone instruct me how to|?

xbox40489

29-01-2013, 10:17 AM

Any one has a test to me to test the harvest cycle?

I hope I can retry to fix this icemaker that has been driving me nuts!

I bought the good items for it. It might be even the wiring if I can say the items are working well. But the piece that heats up the evaporator.

I have not been able to test it yet when it is in harvest mode etc!

T.

xbox40489

04-02-2013, 11:02 AM

WHIRLPOOL K20 Ice Maker Water Inlet SOLENOID VALVE BN

I ordered a new one for the icemaker. It is getting pretty desperate for this icemaker to have it working properly again, because I was already looking for a replacement.

What would you guys recommend?

I was looking at this model:

http://www.amazon.com/Whirlpool-GI15NDXXB-Undercounter-Storage-Production/dp/B004FJX25C/ref=sr_1_2?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1356314052&sr=1-2&keywords=Whirlpool+GI15NDXXS

xbox40489

25-03-2013, 07:13 PM

WHIRLPOOL K20 Ice Maker Water Inlet SOLENOID VALVE BN

I have replaced the solenoid valve yesterday and the ice maker still does not change to the harvest cycle.

What else should I look up?

The wiring?

Is the thing down below working at all the heater next to the compressor?

1mikeefc1

25-03-2013, 07:26 PM

xbox40489

26-03-2013, 04:06 PM

If you turn the ice thickness all the way (anti clock wise I think) it should click an extra bit this should cause the machine to go onto a forced harvest if it clicks across but no change in its running then the stat is faulty( even a new stat on these aren't reliable) if it does I would look at the positioning of the stats capillary or if its been damaged.

Oh then you are blaming the thickness stat?

I have already replaced it with a new one.

No change.

It used to do the forced harvest cycle and suddenly now it does not.

capillary has to be inspected?

It can possibly be the thickness stat? it is brand new. but you said it is unreliable.

1mikeefc1

26-03-2013, 07:27 PM

If it doesn't force the harvest then the stat sounds faulty, when I mean check the capillary I mean the thickness stat capillary if its been snapped or nipped it will be no use as the charge in the stat itself will have been released. Is it still making a full sheet of ice ok?

xbox40489

27-03-2013, 02:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzAvSZ5Gt7I

It still makes a full sheet of ice. Look at the video above. The only thing it is not doing right is to change to the harvest cycle.

So another order of the ice thickness thermostat might do the job?

How do I know the ice thickness thermostat is working properly before even installing it?

If it doesn't force the harvest then the stat sounds faulty, when I mean check the capillary I mean the thickness stat capillary if its been snapped or nipped it will be no use as the charge in the stat itself will have been released. Is it still making a full sheet of ice ok?

1mikeefc1

27-03-2013, 06:02 PM

To test before installing the only way is to continuity test across the terminals. Check the wiring diagram to find the normally open contact and test across and then click the stat to the harvest setting and test again. Personally if its in operation and on harvest setting and doesn't kick into harvest I would replace the stat again.

nike123

27-03-2013, 06:53 PM

How do I know the ice thickness thermostat is working properly before even installing it?
It is explained in my earlier posts.
If at -8°C temperature of thermostat phial and thermostat at minimum tchikness setting, it should switch to harvest cycle. If not, thermostat is faulty. Simple as that.

xbox40489

27-03-2013, 10:05 PM

101701017110172

I took the valve coil (defrost coil) out and tried to have a run.

After 1 hour and 22 min I see it formed a big slab of ice. Still no switching to harvest mode.

The ambient temperature is at: 29.9 degrees C.

At this point I shut off the machine. I think what nike123 says is true. I need to either accept they sold me a bad ice thickness stat.

I already bought two! So I do not know if this is the case twice the time a bad ice thickness stat.

On both I never had a click sound when turning it all the way to the minus side(turn it counter clockwise to the side of the minus)

install monkey

27-03-2013, 10:14 PM

run the ice machine with no water in, to see if the thickness stat finally cuts out- if it does then u need to check your gas pressures

xbox40489

27-03-2013, 10:29 PM

By the way I purchased the ice thickness thermostat twice:

PHILIPS K20 / K40 ICE MACHINE ICE THICKNESS THERMOSTAT (130384719590)
Member ID cateringparts | Feedback score of 32376 | 99.9% Get fast delivery and excellent service from eBay Top-rated sellers.
Sale date: 21/08/12

£23.99

+ £9.99

postage & packaging

Sell this item
View seller's other items
More actions

====

PHILIPS K20 / K40 ICE MACHINE ICE THICKNESS THERMOSTAT (130384719590)
Member ID cateringparts | Feedback score of 32376 | 99.9% Get fast delivery and excellent service from eBay Top-rated sellers.
Sale date: 16/06/12

£23.99

+ £9.99

postage & packaging

Sell this item
View seller's other items
More actions

====

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHILIPS-K20-K40-ICE-MACHINE-ICE-THICKNESS-THERMOSTAT-/130384719590?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item1e5b88eee6

the uk seller.

So I must be badluck brian if they ship twice a faulty non working thickness thermostat to me!

xbox40489

27-03-2013, 10:30 PM

run the ice machine with no water in, to see if the thickness stat finally cuts out- if it does then u need to check your gas pressures

I think I did that in the past.

It will not cut out as you would expect.

But I will try it and let you know.

xbox40489

27-03-2013, 11:05 PM

I ran the machine for 30 min straight without any water I emptied the tank of water.

It also turned the dial on the ice thickness thermostat. To see if it will click.

Nothing happened. So that does not trigger the harvest mode either.

I think I did that in the past.

It will not cut out as you would expect.

But I will try it and let you know.

nike123

28-03-2013, 04:51 AM

.........................

You could test ice thickness thermostat by putting its capillary in glass of water together with thermometer (K-type probe, for example) and placing that glass in freezer of your home fridge-freezer or standalone freezer. After some time it will reach temperature of -8°C to -15°C and switch OFF. You should check (with lamp connected in series) at what temperature it switches.

If that does not produce switching of thermostat contacts, or switching is outside of range of -8°C to -15°C than thermostat is faulty.

xbox40489

28-03-2013, 04:29 PM

How do i do the lamp connected in series? That sounds dangerous.

Can i use a multimeter? or something less unpractical to test the energizing of the stat?

xbox40489

28-03-2013, 04:29 PM

.........................

How do i do the lamp connected in series? That sounds dangerous.

Can i use a multimeter? or something less unpractical to test the energizing of the stat?

xbox40489

28-03-2013, 04:32 PM

10170

by the way the valve coil is easy to test?

the valve coil (defrost coil)

It has the ground(green yellow) and the blue and the black cables.

How do i test it is 100%?

1mikeefc1

28-03-2013, 05:53 PM

Your faults not with the coil your supply to the coil isn't being sent from the stat so won't harvest re-replace the stat.

xbox40489

28-03-2013, 06:19 PM

Oh ok I will leave the coil alone for now.

I want to order the thermostat but it will be a 3rd time i will order it maybe i should have a test like nike123 suggested or just reorder and worry about it later.

Because I want to see it working.

10180

1mikeefc1

28-03-2013, 06:28 PM

xbox40489

28-03-2013, 09:03 PM

If you test the two you've removed before you order one then? When the stats on its maximum ice thickness setting test continuity between the terminals then click it to forced harvest and test the same again, one will have continuity through and one won't if this isn't the case then these stats are definitely faulty.

hello i have a broken one here the one that came with the ice maker machine.

i tested the continuity quickly.

it does not give you a closed circuit.

but the capillar is broken.

the ice thickness stat prevents the signal to get through?

so meaning if you have continuity you have the harvest mode on.

so i should get the continuity when i get the stat out of the freezer because is has been -8C and beyond in the freezer to keep the terminals connected untill it reaches below -8C etc.?

1mikeefc1

29-03-2013, 10:29 AM

It doesn't need to be in a freezer just wind it all the way anti clock wise and a bit more until it click off. This is when the stat is in its forced harvest position.

xbox40489

29-03-2013, 06:08 PM

I should have the wiring good but just in case,

here are the pics of the wiring!

if you have an icemaker of k20 compare them and let me know.

1018310184101851018610187

install monkey

29-03-2013, 10:48 PM

if you cannot move it to a cooler location- can u blow air onto the condenser inlet to see if the bugger goes into harvest mode- if the evap makes ice,ice is an insulator and your thickness stat does click when you test it in the freezer- then it may just be out its operating limits- as most uk systems 30deg is the time when they start to fail, theres a site im going to in the next few weeks,there was an old k20/k40- will have a look if its still there to take a piccy of the wiring for you

xbox40489

30-03-2013, 12:38 PM

10191

Just to be thourough with this temperature range of the ice thickness thermostat that is causing me all this problem:

I added up here from the manual install monkey gave me. I think it from a k40 that manual because the compressor shows 915W even though i know for a fact the k20 that I have here consumes 400W.

But I would think the stats work the same, the pic shows you the off and on temperatures of both the ice thickness and the bin full thermostat.

The ice bin full stat does a clicking sound like a charm when I hold a piece of ice against the capillar.

It switches off already around 6 degrees C(min) to -2 degrees C(max).

I want to see this happen with the ice thickess thermostat -8 degrees C(min) to -15 degrees C(max).

But according to my test in december 2012 picture. Thee temperature I never reached more then -8.4 degrees C and below!

The treshold is at -8 C degrees though. So I had to put the dial at the minimum( - side of the

9427
on the right side would be the minus sign.

So I need to start to dial it to the very minus side. Which is counter clockwise. Then you tell the ice thickness thermostat that it needs to click at -8 degrees C.

Would it be easier for me to have a ice thickness thermostat that triggers a bit higher then -8 C? I would say at -5C.

Because it is hard to get the whole machine to be -8C to -15C below there on the evaporator.

http://db.tt/l8PPxFNk

xbox40489

30-03-2013, 01:16 PM

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-appliance/7m64c-k20-ice-machine-ice-thickness-thirmostate-calibration.html

I found an article on the ice thickness thermostat.

The dude says something about adjusting the levels on the stat with a screwdriver.

Is this information relevant for me?

First the freezer test then I am going to check this method out.

1mikeefc1

30-03-2013, 01:29 PM

Why do you need to do a freezer test? There is a setting on the stat that puts it on a forced harvest. If its on this setting and its not got continuity through the terminals it is faulty.

install monkey

30-03-2013, 04:01 PM

just a though
Airconandy (http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/member.php?55737-Airconandy)
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/images/re2011/statusicon/user-offline.pngrookie posterHey, I am new to : REhttp://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/images/re2011/reputation/reputation_pos.png

Join DateJan 2011LocationWalesAge45Posts10Rep Power0

Re: whirlpool k20 ice machine
I had one last year that wouldn't harvest even after i had fitted 2 new stats it, i put it down to the plate not getting cold enough to set off the hot gas cycle. I put a new compressor on and it worked again. I can only assume that although the compressor seemed to be operating correctly it was in fact probably only operating at about 80% of its duty, i would be curious if anyone else has found this.

nike123

31-03-2013, 10:39 AM

xbox40489

02-04-2013, 01:38 AM

If ice production cycle is too long than problem is with refrigeration cycle.
With ice thickness thermostat at middle and normal ambient temperature with some ice in ice bin, ice production cycle should last between 30 and 45 min. If it is longer than that, compressor is inefficient or gas charge is problem, or capillary is partially clogged.

If any above is case, temperature of evaporator could be to high to trigger ice thickness thermostat to switch to harvest cycle. Therefore, it is essential to measure thermostat performance in order to conclude if it is necessary or not to do some work on refrigeration cycle.

Back then i did stick THE thermometer (digital) right next to THE capillar ending of THE ice thickness thermostat. And i posted THE reading of This digital thermometer reaching -8.4 C.

So i still did not See harvest mode.

Was This à valid test? Or It Should be more? -15 C?

xbox40489

02-04-2013, 06:49 PM

I have been playing with the old ice thickness thermostat.

And i pried it open since it is already broken.

The screw that you can access on the outside, is a spring to hold back a circuit from touching.

now i can see the mechanism go up and down also seen on the side of the ice thickness thermometer body.

it is a lever that is situated right next to the screw on the lower right side if you hold the pot meter to the sky.

i used my multimeter on a brand new ice thickness thermostat on both connections. And it is giving me continuity.

When I loosen up the screw(counter clockwise) the lever in question becomes easier to handle. Hence making it easier to have the clicking sound(disconnects the circuit! I also have no continuity because I have tested this on this new ice thickness thermostat. It stops beeping when the lever goes up!). That gives me the harvest mode.

the spring inside the metal casing is then less tense and will allow you to have a quicker clicking to the harvest cycle.

Now lets think how it work by itself to go to the clicking harvest mode.

10199

the temperature of the capillar drops to -8 C as you could have seen in my machine.

The gas will shrink and let the pressure down at the end of the capillar system and let eventually the harvest mode kick in(around -8 C).

this is also true the other way around. When its getting too hot and the gas in the capillar expands. Then the gas will push whatever the thing is on the thermostat to push the lever up to make a connection. Hence putting this back into (energising the ice thickness thermostat by closing the circuit)the ice making mode.

Now this is what I have been thinking, when I have the screw on the spring too tight and avoiding it to be able to have the click sound at -8C(the click sound goes in when the circuit is disconnected) then it will never go to harvest mode.

And I think then this might be my problem altogether.

===

Also if the gas in the capillar does not work properly by turning the screw I would just alleviate the clicking(turning to harvest mode). Then you would think it works a little bit.

It would require little work to make it into the harvest mode. And it is really hard to make it into the set harvest mode temperatures of -8C to -15 C.

Seeing my ambient temperature is around 28 C!

Making it impossible inside this ice maker to reach lower temperatures like -10 C or -11 C, -12 C, -13 C or -14 C and -15 C.

It is not that the ice making cycle does not work the compressor works just fine withing 55 min each cycle back when it was working fine but I must say then in a colder ambient temperature(The Netherlands where I was living befo).

Right now in The Netherlands it is 1 C and in St Maarten it is now 28 C.

So the question is here back to the screw you can turn in this ice thickness thermostat, should I loosen the screw a bit and give it a test run?

Let me know.

xbox40489

03-04-2013, 02:00 AM

Testing the ice thickness stat:

I loosen up the screw today of the ice thickness thermostat and gave the ice maker a test.

I started to turn the knob all the way counter clockwise.

After having it run without water for a few minutes, I forced the ice thickness stat to harvest mode. This I did by lifting the lever that you can force outside. When loosen it a little bit it becomes easy to lift.

The lifting causes a click which happens when it reached the harvest cycle.

This action turns off the pump.

But the evaporator did not feel hot or warm like it should do. I did not feed the machine water so I do not know if the solenoid opened up.

But I held the ice thickness stat to harvest mode for a while no change.

Does it mean the warm element the valve coil (defrost coil) valve coil (defrost coil) does not work properly and should be tested or looked at?

Let me know.

1mikeefc1

03-04-2013, 05:53 PM

xbox40489

03-04-2013, 08:33 PM

When its in harvest do you have hot gas coming out from the hot gas valve? If it is warm before and not after then check there is power to the sol coil if there is and no heats coming through it would sound like a faulty hot gas valve. Out of interest how long does it take to make a nice thick slab of ice? You want it thick but not so thick it won't go through the flap onto the cutter grid.

How much is it to replace the hot gas valve?

I can slap a multimeter to the black and blue cable and make the harvest cycle kick in(force it) and see what the multimeter gives me(should be 220V).

If the coil is faulty it is just replacing the coil(the black thing that heats up)? Or the whole thing?

I can test the coil for being energised in the harvest mode and let you know.

==

I have tested the ice making cycle before and it should take around 55 min to 1 hr to make a big slab.

1mikeefc1

03-04-2013, 08:46 PM

Test the coil but if "the black thing" is warm It sounds like you have a supply to it. Not sure on cost of one but its the solenoid valve you want not the coil if there is heat to it and not going to evap on the pipework. Is the stat now operational and putting a feed to harvest when needed?

1mikeefc1

03-04-2013, 09:04 PM

Might be a silly question but do you have your gas handling certificate? If not you won't be able to remove the gas and replace the valve.

xbox40489

04-04-2013, 08:44 PM

Solenoid valve or valve coil (defrost coil) ?

u mean the water inletvalve? that is replaced already recently.

But I need to check on both if it energises.

Right now I do not know it the ice thickness thermostat switches when it needs to do so.

Because I have switched it by hand(forcing it with a flat screwdriver).

This was to see if the other items were working.

And no I do not have a certificate to change anything that is including gas.

1mikeefc1

04-04-2013, 10:46 PM

Ok this explains a few things, the valve I am talking about is what the solenoid coil( black thing) is operating(sat on) when it energises it should open up and flow hot gas to the evap plate causing the ice to melt and drop onto the cutter grid. If the coil has power to it on harvest and no heat is getting there the valve body itself will require changing by a fully qualified and certified specialist.

xbox40489

05-04-2013, 04:47 AM

So we establish the clicking manually means the ice thickness stats are oke and working by checking the continuity(beeps when energises/ice making mode) and when continuity goes off(circuit is off and does not energise/harvest mode)?

I can check the this tomorrow quick and let you know if the other one I bought ice thickness stat is good.

But keep in mind when testing these stats i will not get a automatic cycle change to harvest mode as yet not even at -8.4C!

Cause the treshold was reached at least -8C and still no clicking in sight. I did turn the screws a little to calibrate it but still wont give me a click by itself.

==

On to the black thing. I need to check if it energises when the harvest mode is on(forcing it with a screwdriver). And that I do with a multimeter to see the voltage go up to 220V+.

And if this energises and does not heat up your explanation is that the whole thing needs changing? I think I will need to check it and see. The hot gas might be working in the capillar but if that piece(black thing) is not working properly then it might be that square thing itself that is broken.

But I will let you know by tomorrow.

xbox40489

06-04-2013, 02:24 AM

Allright guys,

I did two tests today:

1)
I measured the voltage over the inletvalve when the harvest mode was on:

178V ACV

Did not bother to connect the waterpipe to test it but this one is bought new probably without having to do so. But should energise it to have some water coming in.

2)
I measured the voltage over the valve coil (defrost coil)(aka the black thing next to the compressor underneath next to the pipes etc.)

This gave me also around 178V.

First I see it energised after having ran the ice making cycle for a few minutes. And i did not see any change, it was supposed to melt the evaporator. But turns out I had the coil slipped on the other way.

So the function of the valve coil (defrost coil) never kicked in when in harvest mode.

So I slipped the valve coil (defrost coil) on the capillar end the right way. Boom! All ice melted on the evaporator.

So the only piece that is keeping me from making ice cubes is the damn ice thickness thermostat!

I need to test it now for a cycle now see if it kicks in anytime.

I am doing without water so should freeze up quickly.

Any tips on these Faulty stats?

I need to research the screws on top of this stat. How to callibrate it.

I got two of them right now one in the machine and one outside the machine.

If I was to test this I need to throw it in the freezer and see if the stat clicks?

Let me know now!

I am quite happy to have solved the valve coil (defrost coil)! This was all the time on the reverse way pulled on the capillar.
10200

By the way in the pictures shows you how it was the right way to pull the defrost coil over the capillar down below next to the compressor.

I had it the other way around. All this time.

Also I see the machine getting to lower temperatures much quicker right now. -14.2C right now in only 19 min without water ofcourse.

Waiting for it to kick in the defrost cycle.

Let's see!

xbox40489

06-04-2013, 03:42 AM

"This is what Whirlpool has for the thickness calibration.

K20lK40
ADJUSTING THE ICE CUBE THICKNESS
lce cube thickness is pre-set at the factory. The thickness can be increased or
decreased by turning the thermostat knob with a screwdriver. Turning the
knob clockwise increases the thickness, turning it anti-clockwise decreases
the thickness. By means of the thermostat knob it is possible to adjust the
variations due to the ambient temperature, when it is higher than 32'C and
lower than 10'C.
- Never turn the thermostat knob outside the field indicated on the dial.
- Adjust the ice thickness thermostat only after a few hours operation and
only after the bin has half-filled with ice cubes.
- Non-observance of the thermostat setting rule could result in damage to
the ice maker, especially if the thermostat knob is left on a low getting in a
high room temperature.
In this case the ice could become so thick the ice will not cut. On the other
hand, the ice thickness could be reduced to a minimum or none at all."

source:

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-appliance/7m64c-k20-ice-machine-ice-thickness-thirmostate-calibration.html

So I need to loosen the screw to have it less thick. Triggering will be easier and the slab smaller?

Ok let me think loosening(turn anti clockwise) the screw applies less pressure to the lever it is holding on to.

There is spring in between the screw and the lever.

So to make it easier to click(harvest cycle) means the gas inside the capillar works on cold and it basicly shrinks . This makes the coil in the housing also shrink and become small and apply less pressure so the lever can touch and make the circuit of the harvesting happen.

This will in return warm up the capillar of the ice thickness thermostat. Which expands the gas inside it and therefore pushing up the lever to avoid it touching.

So I conclude I need to make the harvest cycle kick in easy. This I can do by loosening the screw. Easier harves cycle achieved that way.

Tightening will only make the ice thickness stat delay the harvest cycle.

So I will check into loosening the screw tomorrow and see what happens.

1mikeefc1

06-04-2013, 11:36 AM

Glad you got to the bottom of it hope the ice is worth all the time and effort you put in. :-)

xbox40489

06-04-2013, 04:01 PM

Glad you got to the bottom of it hope the ice is worth all the time and effort you put in. :-)

Well I havent gotten the problem solved as yet!

I only see the ice thickness thermostat is not switching.

I am doing a waterless run today I will let it sit there for an hour or so after opening up the screw on the ice thickness thermostat.

But one thing difference is that it cools down the evaporator way quicker after I had flipped the heat coil.

So now to have it switch by itself now instead of by hand.

Any one of you have tips on callibrating this ice thickness thermostat?

And I have gotten some tips to make sure the tip of the capillar touches the evaporator and also to put the excess capillar curled up under the evaporator so it can keep even cooler. So harvest cycle is closer.

Well ice is in the Caribbean pretty much a necessity almost. So hopefully this machine get fixed.

spimps

06-04-2013, 06:52 PM

xbox40489

06-04-2013, 07:03 PM

You could, check the suction pressure when running. Extract refrigerant and weigh, re charge with exact weight check suction pressure again to compare. Trying to adjust differentials on a stat is 90% likely to fail. There are also a couple of variations of stats which I fell foul of once.

I bought two ice thickness thermostats already. Read my earlier posts.

And I obviously changed it from the factory settings now. No going back.

Should I try with reordering another? Would be my 3rd and I would leave it in factory settings.

I can not understand what you mean with extracting refrigerant and suction pressure.

I am new to this.

I guess I can only replace items and play with the calibration.

By the way when I do force the trigger on the ice thickness thermostat to harvest mode.

It goes back automaticly back to the ice making cycle.

That it does though.

So I should assume playing with the differentials on the stat is my only hope or just buckle down and reorder one unless there is a way how to callibrate these stats by hand.

If there is I would do that other then refill refrigerant etc and checking pressure.

xbox40489

06-04-2013, 07:08 PM

Adjusting the Harvest Thermostat

If your ice thickness control doesn't respond properly, but your sensing bracket seems to be properly in place, it is possible the thickness control thermostat itself has simply drifted out of calibration and just needs an adjustment. This is an easy repair, assuming you ruled out the loose bracket first. Remove the escutcheon plate from the front, exposing some tiny adjustment screws on the thickness control for the cut-in and cut-out temperature setpoints. You can twiddle those adjustments. The cut-out screw sets the colder temp for the harvest trigger, the cut-in screw sets the warmer temp to end the harvest. Set the control (knob) to the middle of the thickness range, and wait for the ice to build to a medium thickness, and then adjust the cut-out screw until it triggers the harvest. These screws have a range of several turns of adjustment, so you may have to turn them 1/2 or a full turn before you see any difference in performance. When making these adjustments, count the turns you apply to either screw, making notes of that, so you can return the control to its prior settings if you get lost.

Even if the bigger problem is the loose evaporator bracket, you can compensate to an extent by adjusting to cut-out setpoint on the thickness control to a warmer temperature. But you won't have fixed the problem in the long run, and the thickness control will be poorly responsive since the thermostat doesn't have a solid thermal contact with the evaporator plate. Poor response can result in harvest intervals that start too soon, too early, or inconsistently; and also in harvest times that are too short or too long.

If you want to adjust the harvest thermostat to shorten the harvest time, remember that the harvest time is deliberately longer than the time needed to just refill the reservoir. The reservoir is flushed with an excess of refill water, which then overflows into the drain tube, so that the high mineral content of the old water is replaced with new water.

source:

http://www.truetex.com/icemachine.htm

i found this method I am going to try it.

I am going to take a wild guess that the External screw on the stat is the cut-in screw(sets the warmer temp to end the harvest).

And the Internal screw is the cut-out screw(sets the colder temp for the harvest trigger).

Let me know.

10203

I have to deal with the internal screw only until it triggers the cut out setting for the harvest cycle.

install monkey

06-04-2013, 09:40 PM

tip, make sure ur drain from the bin has a good fall, as when it goes on harvest mode, it fills the trough and excess water will drain, your 1st batch of ice will defrost before the next batch drops, keep the door shut,and lets hope ur bin stat cuts out when ice fills the bin!- im impressed with your perseverance:)

monkey spanners

06-04-2013, 10:00 PM

xbox40489

06-04-2013, 10:00 PM

On my old and broken ice thickness thermostat i have got:

A03 0116 B444
WHIRL CAT*

The other two I ordered are:

A03 0116 H*
E351 WHIRL

Both of them.

Searching on google I encountered:

http://www.ascateringsupplies.com/part.aspx?pCode=ASC00954

Ice Thickness Stat - Whirlpool Ice Machine - ASC00954 (£28.99)

A03 0116 E287

So they claim to be E287 and what I have 2 of are: E351

What does those E number mean?

Are these all fit for the Ignis Blizzard 20(k20)

I own an Ignis.

monkey spanners

06-04-2013, 10:28 PM

xbox40489

07-04-2013, 02:34 AM

Thought they are the same with different label on them but not sure. Last one i worked on we ended up scrapping as it was getting expensive to run. You would be half way to a new one with the money you have spent so far on parts.

electricity wise?

yeah these things are old and not energy efficient any more.

maybe the newer model are but right now no money for that one.

xbox40489

07-04-2013, 02:54 AM

Manuals, trouble shooting and spare parts guides can be downloaded here,

http://www.whirlpoolk20.co.uk/

Seem to remember there is a heater for the ice thickness/defrost stat BUT!!!! i could be thinking of a different machine. Think it heats the stat so it actually gives it a false impression of the temperature.

Part n. 451 0 on list on one of the downloads in the link, and L10 on wiring diagram. BUT it may only be on the K40 model.

Dirty condenser is also listed as causing similar faults, as would a dirty evap, as the thing defrosts but the ice don't move much if at all as it it gripped by the dirty on the evap.

the evap is as clean as a whistle.

Dirty condenser maybe.

Dirty condenser means it cools less good therefore not clicking to harvest mode? My ambient temperature is around 28C in this room.

I blame the ambient temperature. In a colder ventilated place it would switch up to harvest i would think.

But I still do not know now why the ice thickness stat does not click by itself to harvest mode.

I also found out about the forcing the ice thickness thermostat to harvest mode by turning it counter clockwise untill you hear a click. This let the spring that is attached to the screw inside to slide closer to the connectors side(green and yellow(ground) and the blue and the black and red cable). It alleviates the pressure put on the piece of metal that is raising the other piece of metal on top to make the click.

Underneath that piece of metal that does the click is the expanding and the shrinking balloon like membrane that pushes the piece of metal to make the click to harvest mode.

Or shrinks to let it go back to ice making mode.

1mikeefc1

07-04-2013, 09:38 AM

The ambient wouldn't cause the stat to be faulty it would only cause the machine to stop making ice as the compressor would over heat and go off on its o/load.

xbox40489

07-04-2013, 06:21 PM

The ambient wouldn't cause the stat to be faulty it would only cause the machine to stop making ice as the compressor would over heat and go off on its o/load.

it is making ice allright but there is no stopping in sight.

So its the ice thickness thermostat is the problem.

Any one knows how else to calibrate this?

I need clear instructions to do so.

xbox40489

08-04-2013, 06:07 AM

Do you all recommend me buying another ice thickness thermostat?

Cause we determined that is the only thing that does not switch.

Since I even measured with the digital thermometer that it feels freaking cold up to -19.3 C running without water!

And the Stat still would not switch!

Alternatively I can stick the 2nd stat I have here(also new)one in tomorrow and connect the wires and give it a test without water.

1mikeefc1

09-04-2013, 05:58 PM

It still sounds like the stat I've never needed to re-calibrate one yet and I've replaced a lot. Just out of interest why are you testing without water?

xbox40489

09-04-2013, 08:23 PM

It still sounds like the stat I've never needed to re-calibrate one yet and I've replaced a lot. Just out of interest why are you testing without water?

In 6 min without water the evaporator plate can go up to -1 C degrees quickly.

in this site about fixing these ice makers:

http://www.truetex.com/icemachine.htm

" Repairing the Harvest Thermostat Solder Attachment

The older design of this machine used electromechanical controls, including a harvest thermostat on the evaporator plate that clicks on and off with the ice slab temperature. If your machine uses the newer electronic controls, you will have an electronic thermistor on the evaporator instead of electromechanical thermostat, and this section does not apply. "

Do they carry electromechanical controls stat? for these ice makers?

It might have to do with the plate not being soldered good enough to the evaporator plate.

But I think I do not have that problem if my digital temperature goes up to -19.2 C!

It is now just down to these stats that don't want to switch they do switch back to ice making cycle though when you force it to harvest cycle.

No one could have told me about the click that it makes when you force it all the way anti clockwise?

I found out about this last week.

Well i hate to buy one that factory calibrated and have them send it again in a few weeks.

But maybe these stats i have been getting are just faulty. They don't want to switch. but do switch back by itself when it becomes hot.(expanding gas) pushes the lever to the top.

1mikeefc1

09-04-2013, 09:12 PM

I told you to turn it anticlockwise all the way and a bit more to click it onto forced harvest about a week ago and you did not respond by saying you had tried it. This is the best way to check the harvest cycle.

1mikeefc1

09-04-2013, 09:15 PM

Just re read the post from 29/03/13 1129.

xbox40489

09-04-2013, 09:28 PM

ah i replaced the ice thickness thermostat today, the other one was not neatly installed hence the no clicking to harvest mode.

anyways i installed the other one that I had around and i am giving it a test now.

i will let you know if it worked.

xbox40489

10-04-2013, 12:45 AM

It's changing now to harvest mode by itself.

I put in a 2nd ice thickness thermostat I had.

I need to do some tests now with water(tedious). Put the dial on the furthest anti clockwise(according to me the thickest ice)

And see the thickness of the ice blocks see how it goes now.

I need to say the first ice thickness thermostat wasn't correctly installed.

The nut on the plate below the evaporator was not tighten enough and also the capillary was stuck directly inside straight. Not U shaped at all.

Plus the reversed defrost coil did not help at all. I must have reversed it when I was checking it a few months ago by accident.

I will keep you all updated after the tests.

10210

xbox40489

10-04-2013, 03:04 AM

The slab of ice pictured is a cycle of around 55 minutes.

So far it works fine. I am going to give it good clean tomorrow.

Any tips of cleaning the machine?

I had baking soda and water using.

1mikeefc1

10-04-2013, 08:03 PM

Be careful what you use to clean as if you damage any of the evap the ice will stop sliding off it, personally I would use hot water and an old toothbrush to get to any nooks and crannies but no chemical cleaners.

install monkey

10-04-2013, 08:09 PM

does ur misses know u use her toothbrush???:confused:

Be careful what you use to clean as if you damage any of the evap the ice will stop sliding off it, personally I would use hot water and an old toothbrush to get to any nooks and crannies but no chemical cleaners.

xbox40489

11-04-2013, 01:45 AM

does ur misses know u use her toothbrush???:confused:

LOL.

The instruction manual of the machine says you can use baking soda+water for the interior(bin reservoir+door gasket).

And for the whole inner piping and water tank you use 40 min with 1/10 L(100 ml) of vinegar and 1,5 L water. Press both buttons in green+blue(cleaning cycle)

Drain this mixture to a next bucket afterwards.

Followed by cleaning cycle of 1,5L water and 2 tablespoons of backing soda(soda bicarbonate) for 5 min.

Then at last you use 1,5L water to run cleaning cycle for 5 min again to rinse out.

About an hour work.

Twice a year.

====

The condenser and motor compartment, I have nothing to clean but a paint brush or toothbrush. I heard you can use a vacuum cleaner)

By the way I do not have the plug for the reservoir.

Is this needed according to you all? It helps isolate the cold air to go outside for one.

It blocks the drained air to come back to your ice but how would the melted ice water leave the reservoir if you have it plugged in?

xbox40489

11-04-2013, 01:46 AM

I'll update with pictures when i am done.

1mikeefc1

11-04-2013, 05:57 PM

does ur misses know u use her toothbrush???:confused:

I have to eat her cooking so I call it payback!! :)

xbox40489

11-04-2013, 10:46 PM

I have to eat her cooking so I call it payback!! :)

It baffles me when the advertisement of this machine(k20) says it does cycles of 17 min.

Should I think thin ice blocks?

Oh I see the description says between parenthesis "dependent on water temperature.

Well the water here comes in normal room temperature, maybe its 24-26 C.

It feels cold in the shower.

Ambient temperature here is 26-32 C.
====

Energy Consumption: 0.26kW per kg of ice

Is this accurate? My old machine should take more time to make that amount of ice I will think.

Maybe half that amount?

I recorded ice making cycles before and the cycles were:

cycle (time spend)

0:49
0:51
0:55
0:53

If the Kwh usage is right then it roughly use about 0.26kW per cycle(I get 1 slab every hour) which is taking a little bit less then an hour.

Each cycle(slab of ice) would make an kg of ice? I do not know this one.

Here each KWH will run you about a little more then 33 ct usd.

So roughly will produce 4 cycles with that energy.

12 cycles would be a 1 usd.(takes 12 hours)
24 cycles would be 2 usd!

The water flow(usage) you can control with the filter valve. My waterfilter has a plastic valve you can open and close to control the waterflow for less water loss or more water.

The tank needs to get rid of the mineral full water that goes to the drainpipe by adding a fresh batch of filtered water.

I think the tank holds about 1,5L-2L of water.

=====

Water quality:

http://www.buydirectwaterfilters.com/#/item/t_d_s__meter/

A TDS Meter indicates the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) of a solution, i.e. the concentration of dissolved solids in it. Since dissolved ionized solids such as salts and minerals increase the conductivity of a solution, a TDS meter measures the conductivity of the solution and estimates the TDS from that.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDS_meter

I was looking at this tds meter, do you recommend me getting it? This is to measure the filtered water. I use a Everpure 4H which has been in use, but not for very long period of time.

Do you guys use this to see if the filter needs replacing?

=====
Ice storage:

What do you guys use to store the ice in the freezer? An air tight stainless steel container?

We are probably going to use the machine for 4 persons in the house.

But left over ice can be stored away in the freezer.

It tends to stick together in the freezer with ziploc bags. Probably need to get a ice pick.

https://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=stainless+steel+air+tight&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45107431,d.eWU&biw=960&bih=482&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ui9nUYTaHpC08QT3qoDoAQ

These bins would take a lot of space in the freezer.

I resorted to use ziploc bags to bag the small amount of ice.

The ice blocks will probably stick together in the freezer(melting and freezing) I need to invest in a ice pick.

==10231

install monkey

11-04-2013, 10:50 PM

move the bin stat so it produces less ice to save energy

xbox40489

11-04-2013, 11:21 PM

move the bin stat so it produces less ice to save energy

You mean move it lower so the ice below can touch easily? Therefore making only the amount of ice you want.

install monkey

11-04-2013, 11:33 PM

xbox40489

12-04-2013, 07:08 AM

yep, you only need enough ice for 4 people so instead of having a bin full of stale ice either put a plastic container in the base to reduce the bin volume or move the probe lower so it wont hold as much, the k20 ice machine should make 24kg of ice in 24 hrs, ambient temperatures, high water inlet temperatures and loss of performance will affect the running costs
also ice slab should be 10-12mm thick, it states 17 min cycles, after the initial 45min first batch
lce Production
Cube Size
Thickness (Variable)
Storage bin capacity
Length of cycle
Ventilation
Gondenser
Ambient Range
Voltage
Connection
Dimensions(H xWxD)
..'i/eight
Can be built in?
Drain Connection
Water Gonnection
Compressor
Gas Gharge
ElectricaLl oading
24KG/24HOURS
35OOC UBES/ 2 4 HOURS
60-70C ubesA pproxP. erC ycle
29 X 29MM
10 - 12MM
lOKG
17MINS
1STC YCLEW ILLT AKEU PTo4 5MINS
DEPENDENOTN W ATERT EMP
BOTHSIDERSE QUIRVEE NTILATION
50mmM in.C learancea chs ide
AIRCOOLED
13'C to 43"C
240volts5 0hz
13ampP lug
590x555x535
38kg
NO
30mm
% BSP
ASPIRAC OMPRESSONRB 11 1 6 2
0.17k9R 134a
400Watts

hmmmm,

every slab of ice is 10x7 = 70 cubes

In 2:40 hrs I had two slabs and 3rd one on its way.

So this machine speed is probably like 70 cubes each hr more or less.

in 24 hrs, it will crank up 24x70 = 1680 cubes!

The cubes to be honest are thick though, they are like 8-12 mm.

3500/1680 =

2.083333333333333 times slower then it should.

====

Every cycle it takes like the initial cycle. This is around 55 minutes.

55 minutes

3 min harvest 1(58 min)

55 minutes(1:53)

3 min harvest 2.(1:56)

55 minutes(2:51)

3 min harvest 3.(2:54)

55 minutes(3:49)

3 min harvest 4.(3:52)

55 minutes(4:47)

3 min harvest 5.(4:50)

55 minutes(5:45)

3 min harvest 6.(5:48)

55 minutes(6:43)

3 min harvest 7.(6:46)

55 minutes(7:41)

3 min harvest 8.(7:44)

55 minutes(8:39)

3 min harvest 9.(8:42)

55 minutes(9:37)

3 min harvest 10.(9:40)

55 minutes(10:35)

3 min harvest 11.(10:38)

55 minutes(11:35)

3 min harvest 12.(11:38)

55 minutes(12:33)

3 min harvest 13.(12:36)

55 minutes(13:31)

3 min harvest 14.(13:34)

55 minutes(14:29)

3 min harvest 15.(14:32)

55 minutes(15:27)

3 min harvest 16.(15:30)

55 minutes(16:25)

3 min harvest 17.(16:28)

55 minutes(17:23)

3 min harvest 18.(17:26)

55 minutes(18:21)

3 min harvest 19.(18:24)

55 minutes(19:18)

3 min harvest 20.(19:21)

55 minutes(20:16)

3 min harvest 21.(20:19)

55 minutes(21:14)

3 min harvest 22.(21:17)

55 minutes(22:13)

3 min harvest 23.(22:16)

55 minutes(23:11)

3 min harvest 24.(23:14)

55 minutes(24:09)

=================

24 ice harvests in 24:09 hrs

one harvest equals, 70 cubes.

(every slab of ice is 10x7 = 70 cubes)

24 x 70 cubes = 1680 cubes

===

The newly introduced water that refreshes the mineral full water in the tank(when in harvest mode) is about 24-28 C.

This might be the explanation that it takes 55 min to cool off the water on the evaporator and to start making ice.

Sometimes it takes about 30 minutes just to get the digital thermometer under the evaporator to reach 0 degrees C!

I have the digital thermostat attached under the evaporator plate still to monitor the temperature at all times.

===

I will make a run tomorrow with pictures with their temperatures every 10 minutes interval.

0 min @ x degrees C
10 min @ x degrees C
20 min @ x degrees C
30 min @ x degrees C
40 min @ x degrees C
50 min @ x degrees C
55 min @ x degrees C

That can explain a lot.

Fact is the water you guys are getting out of your pipes are probably more chilled then the water over here. It looks like the machine is struggling to chill the water before forming the ice hence the longer ice making cycle.

Or the gas needs to be looked at. (134a). I have not much knowledge of this so I won't even think about that.

Also this is not a new machine so it might have to do with it too?

xbox40489

12-04-2013, 09:11 PM

Today I have taken a look at the condenser and there was a lot of dust settled in the grill.

Should make a little bit of difference now.

xbox40489

12-04-2013, 09:48 PM

Is the machine working normal? if the harvest mode makes the evaporator close to 40C and then the inletvalve closes/heat coil(black thing) and there is a pause.

The temperature drops.

Then around 30C the compressor kicks in and goes back to work.

1mikeefc1

13-04-2013, 09:22 AM

Yes it's working fine, the heat is required to drop the ice as its such a big slab of it.

xbox40489

13-04-2013, 05:57 PM

Yes it's working fine, the heat is required to drop the ice as its such a big slab of it.

Allright.

I never took notice of the pause between the ice harvest mode and the ice making mode.

It stalls(stops working for a while and then the compressor works).

I think this is because the temperature on the evaporator rises up to 40C and then it have to come down to ambient temperature in order for the compressor to even start kicking in.

Not sure how it is made exactly there.

So the ice maker was sold because it was slowing production. it is 2x as slow as advertized, making half the amount of ice cubes in 24 hrs.

xbox40489

13-04-2013, 07:01 PM

http://www.thetickletrunk.com/17-airtight-glass-stainless-steel-containers

Google produced me these containers to store ice inside.

Overrated?
Or looks good?

xbox40489

16-04-2013, 07:07 AM

how does one keep these ice blocks from sticking in the freezer?

They are wet ice blocks.

Unless you freeze the whole slab!

i guess these commercial ice machines are made to have the ice to be there to be served.

have them run for half a day and have ice in the machine for your clients.

I am looking at ice picks to buy at the moment:

http://www.****tailkingdom.com/product-p/icp_icepksprxx_0000_sma.htm

xbox40489

24-04-2013, 12:28 AM

10295

http://theprayinglife.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1-point-ice-pick.jpg

I bought an ice pick in the supermarket for a few dollars like this one.

I ussually take out the ice bags. Which are in the freezer like one big lump of ice and break them up and put the loose ice back in the bag. This make it easier to make the ice loose when you go take more ice the next time.

It works for now.

Andy AC

28-04-2013, 07:57 PM

10301
I found this whilst tidying my van earlier. Better late than never.

Andy

xbox40489

07-05-2013, 11:58 PM

10301
I found this whilst tidying my van earlier. Better late than never.

Andy
Hehehe

yeah Andy, thanks for that explanation.

The calibration screw i figured it out, while testing the machine a couple of weeks ago. Trial and error.

But my ice making cycles are still taking too way long, about 55 minutes long each. Even the 2nd or 3rd cycles.

I can live with that though, seeing I do not operate it for a restaurant/hotel that needs constant ice cubes production in a short time.

I just have the machine make ice and come back in a few hours and bag the ice and put it in the freezer for later use.

It is only a few of us using the ice cubes. Sometimes I make icy drinks it takes a lot of ice(frapuccino's, pinja colada etc).

The tray ice cubes in your fridge just have a scent and aftertaste to them.

Ice machine ice cubes are better and melts less quicker.

I am looking into making ****tails, now the ice machines is back working.

install monkey

08-05-2013, 07:46 PM

now its working you could get 1 of theses and be a proper party conisseur!
http://www.smythstoys.com/kitchens-household-44sc/mr-frosty-122280itm.aspx:o

1mikeefc1

09-05-2013, 07:55 PM

Now that's a bit of kit to install :-)

xbox40489

11-05-2013, 04:20 AM

now its working you could get 1 of theses and be a proper party conisseur!
http://www.smythstoys.com/kitchens-household-44sc/mr-frosty-122280itm.aspx:o

Nah now it is turn to check out an Air Conditioning!

This project:

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?36529-Choosing-a-new-inverter-Airconditioning-for-a-5-m-x-3-5-m-room-with-2-windows!&p=263587&highlight=#post263587

==
On topic:

I met a old and rusty scottsman at a Restaurant near a beach lately where I go often for my job. I haven't checked out the ice quality of that one. But it is a big machine.

Also I when you know more about ice machine you will think if the water is filtered. And if it is what about the cleanliness inside this machine. I need to ask them there to have a sample.

Also I should order that TDS meter:

Water quality:

http://www.buydirectwaterfilters.com/#/item/t_d_s__meter/

A TDS Meter indicates the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) of a solution, i.e. the concentration of dissolved solids in it. Since dissolved ionized solids such as salts and minerals increase the conductivity of a solution, a TDS meter measures the conductivity of the solution and estimates the TDS from that.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDS_meter

To be more critical on my water quality and others.

Also when I drove by this week by a supermarket. I saw the ice truck unloading the old bags of ice cubes out of the freezer where they keep these ice bags. And replenish it with fresh new bags of ice cubes. In the Caribbean(read more St Maarten) here it is common to go to the supermarket and buy your bag of ice.

There must be a lot of waste. When it comes to these ice cubes bags. Sold at I guess 2-3 dollars a bag to the consumer.

A few years ago I already bought me a blender which makes icey drinks. Think of frappuccino or pinja colada etc.

I need to get me the bar stuff, the glasses and the mixers and stuff you make C_ocktails with.

xbox40489

12-05-2013, 12:12 AM

I need to do cosmetic stuff, like the screws on the sidepanels(ventilation panels of the k20 ice maker) does anyone know where I can get them cheap?

What size are they anyway?

They can be bought at any hardware store?

xbox40489

17-05-2013, 05:22 AM

oh lord i checked this week an ice maker manicotow big one looks so badly maintained and the ice in it is no longer clear.

they are not cubes but like ice with a dent inside but square shaped.

to think they would make a drink with these ice cubes!

1mikeefc1

17-05-2013, 07:30 PM

You would be surprised at what environmental health ignore.

xbox40489

19-05-2013, 12:35 AM

You would be surprised at what environmental health ignore.

You mean the inspectors that come check the hygiene of an establishment?

Well that looks oke but for the poor machine to be working unventilated and in a closed up area is horrible. Specially at night when the place closes. To top it off a fridge is next to the ice machine in the same area.

They never bothered with some ventilation. The ambient temperature must be very high especially in these tropical temperatures.

I cant imagine how hard it will have to work and also how hot it will be when a person goes in that area.

The compressor pushes the hot air out as the ice making process starts.

The fact that the ice is no longer clear must be because the machine has not been services for a while.

1mikeefc1

19-05-2013, 07:06 PM

xbox40489

19-05-2013, 07:46 PM

Ice is supposed to be considered as a food stuff so these "inspectors" should be pulling all the venues/managers on the state of the ice. No ventilation and overheating in a room with an ice machine is leathal as stagnant water in a warm environment will speed up bacteria growth.

Well. yeah it is considered as food.

The Machine looked like something like this:

http://www.globeequipment.com/Commercial-Kitchen-Equipment/Ice-Machines/Modular-Ice-Machines/C0830-B948s

But way older model.

The ice chest is full all the time but when the place opens there is ventilation but when it closes down at 5 and for the night it must be closed up in the area. And there will be no other vents open or windows and having 2 appliances with compressors on inside this building would make it quite hot.

I do not even want to think about the insides of this ice machine.

Should be full of scales and limestones.

Outside already it looks rusty. And as I said the ice looks not so clear to me.

1mikeefc1

20-05-2013, 07:09 PM

Looks like a lot of ones we work on, in theory it should dump all water after every cycle and refill with clean water, works well unless of course it's already stuffed with lime scale and the water filter isn't changed frequently.

xbox40489

22-05-2013, 04:24 AM

heheh disaster zone!

1mikeefc1

22-05-2013, 06:54 PM

This is by far the best sign I've seen on an ice machine to date

xbox40489

30-05-2013, 03:48 AM

As in killing you with a dash of bacteria?

It is like eating food off a dirty plate that was never washed. It might be dangerous.

xbox40489

05-08-2013, 01:38 AM

How is the ice maker scene out there?

By the same place I am working now. Before the 4th of july the ice maker broke down. A big one scottsman i think..

They resorted to buying bags of ice for the party.

Then after they fixed it.

Not sure what was broken did not ask.

xbox40489

06-01-2014, 04:02 AM

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008XPFYAU/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/OTH_LEWISBAGxx_0000_CKX-****tail-Kingdom-Lewis-Bag/dp/B008YKGPF2/ref=pd_bxgy_k_img_y

Update on the icemaker:

I bought a lewis bag and a mallet(wooden hammer).

I needed these tools to sometimes beat the block of ice in the bag loose to be able to have some in my glass.

==

on the icemaker side. It starts to make thinner pieces of ice and I think I need to set the dial in the back to a bit thicker ice. I have not touched it though since I had thick ice.

It might be something else too that makes the slab of ice thinner then normal.

I need to have it a clean again.

====

The filter of everpure I have also is in working condition but close to the 10-15 PSI which on the label said needs replacing if it plunges below 10 psi.

I have this filter for quite a while now. But have not used it intensively.