oil related question

[frozenpal2010]

Hi to everyone. This is my very first post. I need some advice on how to proceed with a relocation job I need to do.
There are several Hussmann low temperature islands I must move and re-install. I bet that even with a good refrigerant recovery unit, there is going to be some amount of the original oil left inside the evaporators. Since these islands were not installed with service valves in the suction and liquid lines, as soon as I remove the refrigerant and cut the pipes, there is going to be air entering inside the evaps. Being a polyolester oil, it is going to get contaminated soon after. My question is: how can I remove the existing oil inside the evaps in order to avoid a mixing between the spoiled and unspoiled oils once the system begins operations ?
Thanks!!

[Fri3Oil System]

Hi there,

I only know one method to take 100% of the remaining oil from a plant, which is using our system. By the way, you will be sure you have eliminated moisture, and other substances from the circuit, so you can add then POE without propblems.

Regards,

Nando

[oriator_08]

hi every one.. this is myfirst post I have operating a trane chiller model RTAA 155 i have a problem if i will operating crt 2 in a several hour the chiller has trip indicate an alarm low oil flow I check oil level and master solenoid coil but it normal. what is posible problem of the chiller do you think. thank u.

[coolhibby1875]

i presume you mean that you will be moving them from 1 part of a shop to another part of a shop? which i presume will be done on the same day?
if this is the case then time is not on your side and you will never be able to get all the oil out, even if you had time on your side getting all the oil out would be extremly difficult!

[Fri3Oil System]

i presume you mean that you will be moving them from 1 part of a shop to another part of a shop? which i presume will be done on the same day?
if this is the case then time is not on your side and you will never be able to get all the oil out, even if you had time on your side getting all the oil out would be extremly difficult!

Hi Coolhibby,
do you refer to my post?

cheers and regards,

Nando

[NoNickName]

as soon as I remove the refrigerant and cut the pipes, there is going to be air entering inside the evaps

You're doing it wrong. Don't take the oil out, just don't let air in.
With very long pliers, press the pipes flat and tight. Cut the pipe one inch away from the pressed area, and weld the pipe within the contraction (basicly clog the pipe).
I would suggest to install a schrader valve, so that when it's time to install it in the new position, you could flood the evaporator with OFN, while cutting and welding the pipes.

[Gingerair]

NoNickName is right, just try to avoid letting any air in.
After reclaiming any regfrigerant add nitrogen to around +2 psi then cut the pipework.
As coolhibby said getting any oil out is a job in itself, if you've not got much time try blowing through with lots of nitro, it should get the bulk of oil out. Just make sure you've got something over the end where the oil will come out..
You could then flatten the pipework to seal it up until you're ready to re-connect..

[Fri3Oil System]

NoNickName is right, just try to avoid letting any air in.
After reclaiming any regfrigerant add nitrogen to around +2 psi then cut the pipework.
As coolhibby said getting any oil out is a job in itself, if you've not got much time try blowing through with lots of nitro, it should get the bulk of oil out. Just make sure you've got something over the end where the oil will come out..
You could then flatten the pipework to seal it up until you're ready to re-connect..

Hi Ginger,

Nitrogen is just not miscible with the oil. You can get part of it by blowing nitrogen by pressure differential, but you won't get all that oil that remains in the circuit "syphons". You could only do it with a refrigerant that would be miscible with the oil inside the system.

Regards,

Nando

[Gingerair]

Hi Ginger,

Nitrogen is just not miscible with the oil. You can get part of it by blowing nitrogen by pressure differential, but you won't get all that oil that remains in the circuit "syphons". You could only do it with a refrigerant that would be miscible with the oil inside the system.

Regards,

Nando

Hi Nando

I agree, nitrogen is not miscible with oil but if the poster hasn't got the time to perfrom a proper 'flush' with a product like your's or by other means it maybe the only option available in their timescale.
Supermarket re-fit schedules are notoriously tight.

Unless the OP has the option to carry out oil tests & changes after the move.
Think the OP is worried about contaminating the oil in the sytem with air, this can be avoided with a nitrogen 'pad' & nitro purging when re-connecting pipework..

[Fri3Oil System]

Hi Nando

I agree, nitrogen is not miscible with oil but if the poster hasn't got the time to perfrom a proper 'flush' with a product like your's or by other means it maybe the only option available in their timescale.
Supermarket re-fit schedules are notoriously tight.

Unless the OP has the option to carry out oil tests & changes after the move.
Think the OP is worried about contaminating the oil in the sytem with air, this can be avoided with a nitrogen 'pad' & nitro purging when re-connecting pipework..

Hi,

Thanks for the explanation. Time is more than money regarding supermarkets.
A client of us carried out a cleaning of a hypermarket (med. temp.) in 14 hours... but obviously, using 13 of our systems at the same time. So, you have to optimize time and investment if you really want to be accurate.

Regards,

Nando.

[Fri3Oil System]

I forgot to say anyway, if it's only the oil from the evaps, and some parts, our system can move around 115kg/h, so the recovery and the cleaning is quite fast, specially compared to a standard recovery unit. Maybe for that task, it would meet the time limits.

Regards,

Nando

[coolhibby1875]

Hi Coolhibby,
do you refer to my post?

cheers and regards,

Nando

No i was replying to the question

[lowcool]

give me solvent,a charging cylinder and nitrogen any day.
cheap and efficient.
clinch and weld pipe ends.
cheaper and more efficient.

[Fri3Oil System]

give me solvent,a charging cylinder and nitrogen any day.
cheap and efficient.
clinch and weld pipe ends.
cheaper and more efficient.

Adding a solvent to the circuit is really more efficient? Throwing N2 away is more efficient than flushing R22 at 115kg/h? :confused:
That solvent will be difficult to extract afterwards, and it wil substract CAP and COP to the system.
When cleaning pipes and parts (condenser, evap, heat ex, etc) the installation performance is improved, as all residues are eliminated. And the R22 is recycled for a later reuse, as it is allowed by the E.R. 1005/2009.

correct me if I am wrong. :)

Regards,

Nando.

[lowcool]

flog your r22 as much as you want,its illegal here and you can bet it will happen their sooner or later,find another cleaning agent or another job.
been wondering how you remove oil and acids 100% from r22 when its recycled.
get a pinch off tool was the most efficient method i thought as i pointed out.i have enough gizmos already that are legally required let alone having a one off wonder that will gather redbacks more than it will residue.
cheers

[Fri3Oil System]

It might be illegal in Australia, and I do not know your regulations. I know European regulations, and it is allowed to use regenerated and/or recycled R22 for leaks maintenance until 31st Dec. 2014.

Anyway, the regulation does not mention that you cannot use it for cleaning. Actually, R22 is the only valid cleaning agent for MO installations, since HFC's are not miscible with this oil.

I understand your skepticism. That's why we had to make an internationa certification of the cleaning performance of our system. Yours is a normal reaction since this is quite a different and new technology.

I can ensure you that you can remove all oils and acids from any plant, and recycle te gas at the same time. No use of any detergent, solvent or cleaning agent, just the install refrigerant.

If you want to have more info about it, don't hesitate to PM or email me.

Regards,

Nando.

[NoNickName]

Anyway, the regulation does not mention that you cannot use it for cleaning.

It does. Art.11 of the said 1005/2009 regulation.
It's unlawful to use HCFC, unless regenerated and /or recycled:
1) by the same subject who recovered it
2) in the same unit from which it was recovered.

[Fri3Oil System]

It does. Art.11 of the said 1005/2009 regulation.
It's unlawful to use HCFC, unless regenerated and /or recycled:
1) by the same subject who recovered it
2) in the same unit from which it was recovered.
E.R. 1005/2009. Art. 11. point 4
The regulation says exactly that the person or company who/which recovered the recycled product is the only one who/that can reuse it for maintenance of RAC and Heat pump equipments.

Here you have a link to the Spanish Ministerium in which there is a presentation about it:
http://www.mma.es/portal/secciones/calidad_contaminacion/atmosfera/ozono/jornada_refrigeracion.htm
Sorry, it's only in Spanish, but you can see a very easy-to-understand flow diagram in which you can check that it is allowed to recover and recycle R22 from owner "A", and replace a leak at owner's "X"... actually, they show a picture of our machine in case of doubts.

In fact, in Italy there are already some companies doing it.

Regards,

Nando.

[coolhibby1875]

It might be illegal in Australia, and I do not know your regulations. I know European regulations, and it is allowed to use regenerated and/or recycled R22 for leaks maintenance until 31st Dec. 2014.

Anyway, the regulation does not mention that you cannot use it for cleaning. Actually, R22 is the only valid cleaning agent for MO installations, since HFC's are not miscible with this oil.

I understand your skepticism. That's why we had to make an internationa certification of the cleaning performance of our system. Yours is a normal reaction since this is quite a different and new technology.

I can ensure you that you can remove all oils and acids from any plant, and recycle te gas at the same time. No use of any detergent, solvent or cleaning agent, just the install refrigerant.

If you want to have more info about it, don't hesitate to PM or email me.

Regards,

Nando.


how can you say that your product can remove all oil from a plant?

[Fri3Oil System]

how can you say that your product can remove all oil from a plant?

Hi Coolhibby,

It uses the same refrigerant from the plant, which is miscible/solluble with the oils inside. Oils are mixed with acids, that exit the plant with the oils.

Our system has a "distillation chamber"/liquid separator, that recycles the gas every time it passes through the machine.

After a cleaning, you can cut and open the circuit anywhere, and will check that it is totally dry.

By the way, I'd like to explain that I might made a mistake when registering in this forum with my product name, and probably my first posts were "too commercial" for some of you. My intention was only to inform about this new technology, and help this way to you techs to solve problems.
Anyway, and, as I am using my company's name and image, I wouldn't dare to say nonsenses or "fake" things, as I pay my mortgage with the machines we try to sell, if you know want I mean. Our system's cleaning and recycling performance are certified by "Bureau Veritas".

Regards,

Nando.

[lowcool]

if your company is so good nando why have they not bothered to look at the poster address and have a solution for them.
stop banging your distallation drum with chlorinated refrigerants,some say its harmful.since reading yours as you say too commercial i am sure the local call centre has opening for you.
cheers take care fella

[lowcool]

nando if you wash steel with this does it rust in thirty seconds (or 60 minutes for the hell of it) when dry say 70 % humidity

[Fri3Oil System]

there is no harm if you don't release gases to the ambient, and our machine does not. HFC's don't have chlorine, and you can use them for cleaning as well. In Europe, you need R22 to remove MO, and you can use it til end of 2014.

Have you checked I didn't write the poster before writing that? :)

My father has menaced us (family) by migrating to Australia since we were kids... Myabe he can explain one day about his machine there while having a drink :)

Regards,

Nando.