R-22 into car A/C?

[Z2TT]

Hello,

A person I know had his car charged with R-22, Just wondering is there any problems with charging cars with R22? Will there be problems with cooling efficiency, I believe R22 is a more efficient gas than R134a but don't know what problems it can bring when used in vehicles that normally use R12 and R134a.

Since R22 is a HCFC, like CFC's I believe it should use Mineral Oil, Correct me if I'm wrong. so if the system has been converted to R134a the R22 he just got put in may cause problems with the PAG oil.

Thanks.

[monkey spanners]

The expansion device will not be suitable, nor the compressor, none of the heat exchangers will be optimised for the new refrigerants carracteristics, but i'm sure all the motors went round, things made a noise and the vents blew cold, so everyone is happy.

Not to sure about PAG oil with HCFC but generally you can use synthetic oils with all HFC CFC HCFC refrigerants but no mineral oil with HFC.

[Z2TT]

He says it's gets cold but only when he is driving. I'm not sure how long it will last for him as the pressures will be too high for the compressor to cope.



Thanks.

[Karl Hofmann]

He says it's gets cold but only when he is driving. I'm not sure how long it will last for him as the pressures will be too high for the compressor to cope.



Thanks.

Post back when his compressor dies, we'll run a book...:D

[hyperion]

Suggest that you advise him to get the R22 safely removed as a matter of urgency. The head pressure is going to be well over 350psig when the car is stationary and probably more when you get your Summer temperatures. Either the compressor will give up the ghost, the pressure relief valve will release the R22 or a pipe will burst. The latter could be quite dangerous.

[cadwaladr]

now you know why our trade is being forced to have certification to purchase and handle refrigerant correctly.

[chemi-cool]

The pipes will burst in the summer, I have seen it before by car Ac company that had 60 KG gas bottles delivered to but it took them a few pipes changing to notice that they got R-22 instead of R-12.........

[Shaukat]

Hello,

A person I know had his car charged with R-22, Just wondering is there any problems with charging cars with R22? Will there be problems with cooling efficiency, I believe R22 is a more efficient gas than R134a but don't know what problems it can bring when used in vehicles that normally use R12 and R134a.

Since R22 is a HCFC, like CFC's I believe it should use Mineral Oil, Correct me if I'm wrong. so if the system has been converted to R134a the R22 he just got put in may cause problems with the PAG oil.

Thanks.
hi,
do not use R-22 if condnsing temp is more than 50°c in car AC, do you know what is surronding temp near Compressor, condensser ?
bye
- shaukat

[ctscasemod]

I did use propane on my car for about 2 years, but some cautions are needed.

First my Original R134 Charge was about 800g, and the best compromise I could get for using R22/R290 was using only about 80-90g. If you use more your preasures will trigger the safety valve, that's why your friend only has cold air when the car is moving, as the condenser gets plenty of air. R290 carries mineral and sinthethic oils.
It's much colder than R134 and in cold to mid temperatures (25 to 35ºC) it's more fuel efficent, at highway speeds my fuel consumption is better than with the windows open. In city driving and very hot temperatures (35-45ºC) if the condensor doesn't get a lot of air flow it's worst than R134 as the preasures are a little higher. Overaly I use it because 80g of propane isn't enought to blow things up in case of acident, overaly fuel consumption is a little better than R134 (unless you're at the traffic), It's not a greenhouse gas and it's way cheaper than R134.

[ctscasemod]

And in repply to some smart guys here... Your compressor wont blow up or any tubes. The sistem has a preasure safety valve that shut's down the AC Clutch when the preasure is too high, the same thing that would happen in an R134 system if there was a fan failiure. Mine never shuts down, no matter how hot it is(but the evaporator gets full of ice lol), it's just a matter of putting in the right refrigerant.

[monkey spanners]

And in repply to some smart guys here... Your compressor wont blow up or any tubes. The sistem has a preasure safety valve that shut's down the AC Clutch when the preasure is too high, the same thing that would happen in an R134 system if there was a fan failiure. Mine never shuts down, no matter how hot it is(but the evaporator gets full of ice lol), it's just a matter of putting in the right refrigerant.

Hi Ctscasemod,

How did you go about modifying or changing the expansion device to suit the new refrigerants characteristics?

[coolincab]

i have a good range of compressors in stock here suitable for replaceing ones that have gone wrong due to constantly cutting in at 15 bar then 30 seconds later cutting out at 28 bar

[ctscasemod]

Hi Ctscasemod,

How did you go about modifying or changing the expansion device to suit the new refrigerants characteristics?


No, the expansion device is the same. The Evapoorator freezes if there isn't enought airflow (like in mid temperature days, where you keep your fan low) but I know some cars that have a sensor that shuts down the compressor if the evaporator goes down lower than 0ºC. Mine doesen't so I Just shut if off some time to defrost during driving.

3rd Year without problems, last week my wife had an accident, so I changed radiator tubes, radiators, FAN, Oil and some O-rings from system that got damaged. Never had any leaks and no problems up to date.

Never Charge without Gauges.

Had an older car that got a new heater/AC core and I left the old series flow condenser and I Couldn't get that blowing enought cold even with 300g of R290. Solution was changing to a parallell flow condenser, now also working.

I Don't recomend propane butane mixes, they lower the preasures and make the expansion device work a little better, but I don't think it's a good idea to put 1/2Kg of flamable gas on a car!!

[Jerrylemco]

I have seen operational and static tests run with R-22 in R-12 or R-134a systems and the results are nothing short of stunning. The R-22 will permeate any of the rubber discharge line hoses and cause the neoprene rubber liners to come apart. Had a perfect example of a catering truck owner using R-22 in his system (a real DIYer) and it caused the inner layer of the hose to come apart in little pills and plug everything from the drier back through the condenser. Final bill was in excess of $3000 for a system rebuild. I have seen the same thing with the R-22 blends (MP39 etc) used by farm and equipment dealers as a low cost alternative to retrofitting to R-134a. Turned out to be much more expensive. Regarding the use of Hydrocarbons - if your car has only rubber and no nylon hoses (veneer hoses like Manuli or Aeroquip among others) then it might be fine, except some compressor shaft seals tend to break down. The HC gases will damage the nylon inner veneer on this type of hose on the discharge side of the system (highest temps and pressures and all that). John Deere equipment especially vulnerable as they used Aeroquip GH134 hose for years. Why take the chance - R-134a will get just as cold as any other refrigerant - can't go below 30F at the evap or it freezes anyway.

[chillerman2006]

i have a good range of compressors in stock here suitable for replaceing ones that have gone wrong due to constantly cutting in at 15 bar then 30 seconds later cutting out at 28 bar

:D nice one coolincab

Some twenty years ago, my old boss took a fella on as apprentice, then just let him loose,

He charged R22 instead of R12 at a Honda dealers we installed for (back then dealers new nothing about a/c) I was sent to look at the system as not performing right,

I spent all day pulling the charge in & out trying to work out what was going on, temps & prssures all over the place

Eventually I added virgin charge (all ok now) & phoned the apprentice to try & work out what went wrong when he had charged it,

Did not find out till I went & watched him do another, immediatly spotting the R22 he got from the van instead of R12

:rolleyes::D

[Jerrylemco]

The other problem will be with the clutch cycling systems that operate off the suction pressures - they will never cycle!! They are designed to cycle at a pressure of between 22 and 25 psig - what would the temp for R-22 be at those pressures! The orifice tubes will not necessarily close down, but the evaps will freeze up and you may cause oil starvation at the compressor - then it will definitely fail.