View Full Version : To Aiyub

19-07-2004, 10:17 PM
In what specific in aviation are you interested Aiyub?
I saw the change in you avatar to a company that's repairing PAPI'sn, VASI's and AGL lights.


19-07-2004, 10:21 PM

Airport runway lights, airport signage, also commercial lighting, beacons, mainly stuff from Osram and Thorn, but working with only one of two official distributors in the UK

20-07-2004, 07:20 PM

Some of the areas we are involved in, not all.

1. AGL Lights = 'Airfield Ground Lighting' this is a phrase that any maintenance engineer or any one associated with an airport would refer to their lighting which is Airside, i.e.: not in the departure lounge.

2. Papi = The PAPI and APAPI systems using PPL units with either 2 or 3 light channels offer the pilot information enabling him to carry out the approach procedure with the utmost accuracy and safety. (See leaflet attached).

There are a couple of links below which might be useful to you, the ADB one is probably the best as it outlines a runway and indicates what goes where (I use it when I am not sure)



New web site will shortly be on line which is a far cry from the old one.


20-07-2004, 07:41 PM

Are you out of HVAC/R business and is this perhaps your new job?

I knew these systems - I have an ATPL license and a PPL instructor license - but I wondered why there was a sudden link to these kind of light systems?


20-07-2004, 09:56 PM

Im out of the fridge game, As of Sep 15 I will be a Marketing Consultant full time, but will be working within the HVAC /R industry and also dipping my hands into the Aviation side.

The past two years, have been okay on the fridge side, but my real love is aviation. I was only a little mite..........4 years old, when one day my papa took me to the airport.....

On the tarmac was a Boeing 707..........its engines spooling. The thrill of the whine, the smell of kerosene..........I was hooked.

And I still am , till today. Highlight of my year is always the Royal Air Tatoo held at RAF Fairford...........and Farnborough, when its around

I always tell my freinds........I can quite happily spend the rest of my life............above on an aeroplane.........only touching down to pick up supplies!!!

But its brilliant to know that a fellow member is an ATPL and a PPL instructor no less!!! The qualities of our members has no bounds !! lol

Now u want to hear why I threw in the towel on the fridge side??? It was all to do with a ferret!!!!

My next post will tell all

21-07-2004, 08:40 PM
I thought it was because you fell out with LG :D

21-07-2004, 10:49 PM
Early May...........Sun was shining.........I was rubbing my hands with glee. Yes it was going to be another blistering summer.

And the orders were coming in, helped by my warnings to the wavering lot.........." Dont call me next month, will be too late" Get your kit in now......

So there I am on a nice little job, only prob the hole I was cutting into the wall was on second floor.............so big ladder out.

I fit the indoor unit, and core out half the wall from the inside, I leave the climbing up ladder and second half of hole to my mate..........lets call him AR.

Well, its a hot day, its sweaty..........This guy cuts the hole, but it doesnt slope downhill, its virtually horizontal. Which is still no big deal. I dont bother to check hole. I assume it has been done right.

Customer says hole must be small. Foolishly I listen.

Instead of a 70 mm hole we cut one thats tighter, so come to push the pipework through........it was a struggle, lot of pissing and farting about...........But finally push the thing through.

All the while, the customer is site foreman, watching every move. even telling us how to do things, telling us where he wants this and that........( I hate that)

Tell us outdoor unit now has to be just above satellite dish....That alone made job worse.

Come three o clock in afternoon, everything is connected, but not tested. AR keeps getting these calls.........Im annoyed. Finally he says..........I gotto go. I says where??? He says my ferret is sick. I have to get to the vets before 4 pm. Any later it will cost me more money in emergency fees.

So he buggers off, leaving me to complete.

I start up.........even take pictures

Next day I get a call. Indoor Unit is leaking water. The water falls on a television and video recorder. Destroys both

I have to climb up ladder.........yes two stories up. Disconnect pipework. Cut hole in wall bigger. Ensure drain is sitting bottommost........not sideways.........

Reconnect, and start up again. But theres another snag. AR didnt flare proper. This is 410A. No gas.

So , out with the scales.......put in 770 gms...........But I think 1 KG goes in.

Customer rings............Unit not working in heating mode. Back again..........Its tripping on HP. This unit has to have 770 gms..........No more!!

So get the charge right.............and finally get paid.

It was all because of a ferret. If that darned hole was drilled right first time, none of this would have happened.

Customer ordered three systems.............Well he cancelled the other two. ( But I wasnt going to do them anyway !! ) He was a nightmare customer.

But I was still ok at this point............My next job delivered the final blow..........

So look out for it in next edition............coming soon !!!

21-07-2004, 10:55 PM
did you get tired of all driveing and being stuck in traffic jams ,always fixing broken fridges day in and day out . some times it can be a grind .

i 've been doing this job for to long ,and am working on getting other things going ,i don't want to retire at 65 (if i make) still fixing broken fridges.

22-07-2004, 11:03 PM
Know the feeling. It sometimes gets me down too, and I'm really laid back (most of the time). Like Peter, I have commercial pilots qualifications ATPL (frozen), but after September 11th was not able to find an airline job, so gave up on the idea (for now). My wife's dream is to emigrate, so we're thinking about it at the moment, but probably the time isn't just yet right. If it does happen, then I suspect that I should leave the refrigeration industry, or at the very least not be on the tools anymore. I suppose the problem is that I've spent too long at it (on the tools that is). Now my business is doing OK in most areas, but ultimately my ambition is to expand and have someone else look after daily operations, so I can go off and do flying instruction or something, but I need the income from my business to subsidise the lower wage, and to add to all that I have twins due in December-so it's all busy here.

Kindest Regards

22-07-2004, 11:16 PM
I told my wife about these fridge blokes who are pilots as well.
Her face was a picture of dis belief !!!

After years of my haranguering her about my wishes to train as a pilot......she now sees pilots in role reversal !!

What the heck they doing as fridge blokes she asks???

Well.......its only for the butter, to spread on our daily bread

Refrigeration is a drug............it can get infectuous.....Its a hobby that can also provide a living............But what a love it must be that motivates one to lugging a cylinder of refrigerant and a vacuum pump up on to a roof with pelting rain.

Im a Chartered Marketeer..........On reflection.....refrigeration should have remained on the hobby list, but the experience was worthwhile.......( last 20 years of it anyway) Refrigeration paid for my years at University, bought me a beautiful house, paid for all my jaunts to foreign lands. I am grateful to refrigeration. But tis time to move on.

Now I am furiously catching up on what Ive really missed on, my real job.......and who knows............I may make enough to gain that elusive PPL after all !!!

That reminds me, I have to conclude on that other job.....Maybe tomorrow night

23-07-2004, 02:05 PM
Who said you needed this to repair a fridge, and why a BLOODY PPL?

And I don't need all that bloody math like integrals, sinus, cosinus, matrixes, to repair a fridge.

We are under the section hobbies Marc, didn't you noticed this?

Is it perhaps necesarry to post HAVCR related posts under this section Dez, because I haven't read yet the rules for this forum?

That's at least one thing i can you can't and perhaps that's why your answer was a little bit pissy. :D

Peter Croxall
23-07-2004, 03:28 PM
Hi Peter1,
How did you get your license? Was it through military service?. When I worked in Saudi, a friend of mine went to the States and did an intensive course and obtained his private flying license, ( I think it was in Texas). The trouble is, in the U.K. the cost is prohibitive and even if you got your license, the cost of keeping it active, ( Im not sure how many flying hours a year is required) would be out of reach for the average engineer.

23-07-2004, 08:46 PM
Did my first steps when I was 17 years old: followed theoretcial lessons and flew +/- 10 hours.
Stopped then for almost I think a little 10 years.
Restarted with gliders because I thought that was not that expensive but this wasn't true.

Then started some years later flying ultralights and this was for me ever the most funniest part.
It's affordable and you can sometimes find cheap bargains.

Started then again PPL and got my PPL license and followed the theoretical commercial but had no time to do my test for this.

Then did my theoretical ATPL in Belgium, mainly via selfstudy and 3 evenings/week classes in Antwerp. This isn't possible anymore in the new European system. You have to go to a school.
Went to the US for my multi-engine rating and some IFR training. But US IFR is completely different compared to the Belgium or European. Much easier over there.

Went back to Belgium where our systems insisted here that you do you pass again here a Belgium test with a multi-engine.

Did simulator (obligated 50 hours) and finished the practical IFR training. (complete blind flying, at least 2 airfields 70 miles from each other, and follow all the procedures and rules till almost touch down, emergency procedures while flying,...)

And at least, did also the 7 obligated aerobatic figures for my final exams.

It's indeed expensive here, reason why I flew not that much the last years. But then,...helicopter flying.... almost triple the price.

Time building could be done in the US for 1/3 of the price here.
But with the new JARr regulations, it all has become much more difficult now to fly in the US. Or you must know someone here with a US registered airplane and fly with that airplane.

You have to fly 10 hours/year to hold your licenses, so not that much.
Once commercial, you need to do rechecks for your IFR rating as well.

Also you have to pass each time your medical checks.

But why not try once paraflying if you really want to fly or search for an ultralight airfield and have a look over there.

23-07-2004, 11:19 PM
Yes the cost is probably beyond the average engineer. I was paying at the time I think about 120 per hour PPL, and you have to have a minimum time (From memory I think 45 hours), but most people, me included take around 60 hours or so, plus the cost of the 7 tests-done at the flight school. Then after that you have to hours build upto 250 hours(it used to be 700) for the commercial licence, and in the meantime do the ATPL theory, these are split into 14 parts I remember, ranging from avionics,navigation, flight systems etc, and they are NOT easy, then presuming the night rating is already done, you can do the multi engine rating. The CPL test requires a higher standard of flying than the PPL test. Once this is done comes the (what I thought was the hardest part) and the most expensive module, that is the multi engine instrument rating, although a good deal of it is done in the simulator. That's the frozen ATPL-you need another 1500 hours commercial flying to unfreeze it.
If you are exceptionally lucky, you may find your way into the right hand seat of a smaller airline, and progress from there. Most airlines, however are unlikely to show much interest if you are not likely to hold command of an aircraft before the age of 45.
And there's the medical, Xrays, brain scan, ECG, eyesight, body fat, fluids, etc etc. I think in total I probably spent around 40,000 over the time. There is a time limit as well- I think from memory that after the first theory exam is passed you have to complete the rest in two years.

All doom and gloom,but look on the bright side-you can crawl around a plant room all day !!! :D


23-07-2004, 11:22 PM
If fridge mechanics were let loose on flying a plane, this is what would happen.

If they had to do an emergency landing and asked by ATC to dump fuel, they would scurry to get the reclaim unit out!! ( and save all the fuel for recycling or safe destruction )

When coming into land..........They would glide........up, down............up again..................

They would go around the aisles taking temperature readings.........and checking pressures in different parts of planes

The fridge pilot would not be able to read or understand his psychometric chart!!!

When system electronics showed a fault condition, the fridge mechanic pilot would frantically press all the buttons haphhazardly......keeping it pressed in for three seconds.........

If their was a flame out on star board engine...........the fridge mechanic would push the contactor in to see if the engine runs!!!

When asked by ATC to execute a 90 degree turn........the FMP would bend so to avoid a kink in the airstream

Hows that for starters..............

Now.........If Pilots were fridge mechanics....................

23-07-2004, 11:30 PM
Hey Marc , dont be so " frumpy"

Maybe if you guys posed a little question which involved a few formulas and calculus.........mathematics computations.......he might come around..........

Who knows Marc............You may still be able to join the Mile High Club!!!! :rolleyes:


24-07-2004, 10:15 PM
Well, here are some questions of my exams:

Jet engines/
Given: Pratt & Whitney 2037

1. Take off Power
a. Speed of the jet from in the secondary flow
b. Secundary force
c. Jetspeed op de primary flux
d. Thermical efficiency
e. Speed of the fan = 4500 rpm. What is the relative speed en the relative Mach number at the tips of the fan?
2. Regime Max Cruise
a. Calculate OPR
b. Propulsion Power ?

Aerodynamics :
An airplane is flying straight and level at an altitude where rho =0,6 kg/m.
We know that mass of airplane is 110 ton, glidenumber = 14, span = 50 m, TAS = 350 kts.
Calculate % of induced resistance.

Starting from Tt = T + (V/2.Cp) prove that 1st equantion = Tt = (1 + 0,2 M)?

In the lowest point when pulling up with radius R, the load factor = 1,5 for an airplane with speed V.
What will be the loadfactor at a stabilised horizontal turning flight with same radius R and same speed V?

Draw a schematic of an HF receiver able to receive A1, A2 and A3 signals.
Calculate the frequency from the signal so that the pilot can hear it when
- frequency of the receiving A1 = 13 MHZ
- local oscillator is adjusted at 13899000 Hz
- the frequency of the BFO is 901020 Hz
- IF filters gave a cut-off frequency of 897000 and 903000 can be used.

Falcon airplane at FL420, Mach0.92, TAT = 3.5C
Position N8507,5 E11145,5
Destination = Thule = N 7632,5 - W 06814,5
Mo = meridian of your position
Wind calm
You have to steer GyroHeading 315 to proceed from your position to Thule
For how long have you been flying with a free Gyro and explain.

On a Mercator chart between 00N 040W and 60N 010E, we are measuring (on the map) 1002 mm.
What is the nominal scale (at the Equator) of the map and explain.

Winter in Belgium. After a period of intense cold (NE wind), wind turns to NW. Which weather type can be expected?

Explain the movement of the Inter Tropical Zone and what can expected in India and the East coast of Australia?

Piston engines:

Twin-engine, speed spinner = 1530 RPM, reduction on the motor = 0,667, efficiency reduction = 95%,Cm = 450 Nm, Qci = 42 10exp6 J/kg, D = 3000 N, FL 100, EAS = 100 kts, T = ISA +18C.

Determine Nm, Ch, BHP, THP, nh, MAP to be set by the pilot, Fftot, PSFC, ngl

So this was a small extract of some of my exams

Yes, yes I know, I dont need this to repair a Copeland nor a Daikin.

24-07-2004, 10:22 PM
I think Marc is " spot on "" To be a fridge tech . all you need is to be real thick !!!!


24-07-2004, 10:38 PM
What a pleasure it was reading of" Adolf" gettng his deserts....Just deserts! ;) :D

25-07-2004, 11:23 PM
Stand back folks.....