Any supermarket guys here in western australia or aus?

[paul_h]

I know nothing about supermarket, but a friend of a guy who I'm trying to get work with has a few questions about upright display freezers.
I'm just trying to point this friend in the right direction to keep my guy happy.
So let me know who you are so I can ask you some things :D

[Slatts]

Hey Paul, get your mate to post his questions here and we'll see what happens.

[steemy]

Im a supermarket guy. From perth but have just moved to Norway to do the trade over here.

[Slatts]

They use refrigeration in Norway?:eek:

[steemy]

hahaha yeah suprisingly yes. there is even a lot of houses with air con to cope with the 25 degree summer heat! but supermarket refrigeration here seems similar to what i worked on in Australia. we have a couple of shops running on CO2 and chilled water which is something i had never seen at home though.

[paul_h]

This guy is asking about an upright display freezer, fixed to the floor with a remote condenser. He wants it along the wall, about 3.5m long and 5 or 6 doors, ie pretty much like the display freezers that the upscale supermarkets have.
I just wanted to know if anyone makes them locally, or whether they are just bought premade.
If they make them locally, who is the best people to supply them. If they make them locally, whether they are premade or something can be knocked up on site (as the door way is 760mm wide and he wants deeper units than that idealy and something assembled on site would make that possible).
Finally, the main reason why I was asking if anyone is local, is to ask for a rough idea on the cost of such a display freezer cabinet (I can do the condensing unit and piping, so just the price for the cabinet imade and installed is what he wants).
ANyway, I'd thought I'd ask here for a rough idea before getting people like arcus etc looking at quoting it seriously, as it may be a waste of everyones time if even a ball park figure is above this guys budget, which I think it will be.

[Slatts]

This might be a good place to start... (http://www.simsrefrig.com.au/designinstallation_manu_linde.htm)
I've installed and serviced a few linde cases and don't have much trouble with them.

[ozairman]

This guy is asking about an upright display freezer, fixed to the floor with a remote condenser. He wants it along the wall, about 3.5m long and 5 or 6 doors, ie pretty much like the display freezers that the upscale supermarkets have.
I just wanted to know if anyone makes them locally, or whether they are just bought premade.
If they make them locally, who is the best people to supply them. If they make them locally, whether they are premade or something can be knocked up on site (as the door way is 760mm wide and he wants deeper units than that idealy and something assembled on site would make that possible).

The new guy at our work is ex one of the local local refrig wholesalers, i'll ask him for you.

[lowcool]

any coolroom manufacturer should be able to make a display,then fit it out yourself

[750 Valve]

As slatts linked to - get in contact with sims or hill equip in adelaide - they sell cases (I think I remember you saying you are in SA). Aus manufacturers are limited to Austral and Frigrite pretty much - Sims sell more Austral cases and Hill are the Frigrite dealer, there are a few imports kicking round too like Hussmann (McAlpine Hussmann), Linde (not too readily available anymore since carrier pulled out of Aus - Frigrite used to be the agent), Bonnet (AJ Bakers) and Hill Phoenix (MRS Refrig).

A 5 door glass door freezer is around 3.75m long plus ends, if you want a ballpark price just PM me and I'll crunch some numbers for you, been estimating supermarket case installs for quite some time now.

Alternatively you can do an Insitu room with insert doors but will likely run out to be higher in cost, you can pick up and move or sell a glass door freezer if he needs to remodel or sell up but an insitu room is not as flexible.

www.simsrefrig.com.au
www.hill.com.au
www.frigrite.com.au
www.hastiegroup.com.au/Austral/default.aspx
www.hussmann_have_no_australian_website.com.au :-)
www.ajbaker.com.au

[lowcool]

gday temprite master oh holy one of the beer temperatures.why pay for technology thats not going to be used i will admit that i have not serviced these makes but on install it makes me wonder why all the crap on cases with controllers is there,i know efficiency rah rah rah refrigerated space is still refrigerated space.me i prefer simple and effective.and i do have alot of respect for beer temperatures

[lowcool]

more storage area in made up job if height is no problem ie coils above works everytime,so much easier to service and is basic,no do hicky flickies to break down but it makes the case sound so much better.forgot to mention ice build ups sorry.

[750 Valve]

gday temprite master oh holy one of the beer temperatures.why pay for technology thats not going to be used i will admit that i have not serviced these makes but on install it makes me wonder why all the crap on cases with controllers is there,i know efficiency rah rah rah refrigerated space is still refrigerated space.me i prefer simple and effective.and i do have alot of respect for beer temperatures

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If you are talking to me then a case is just a refrigerated box (in this case it has glass doors fitted too), you can put any amount of hi tech or low tech gadgets you want to control it - the manufacturers don't put them on the cases - the contractors do, same as an insitu coolroom with insert doors, you can go just as over the top with EEPR and EEV if you really want to. For a single case I'd run it off an LP (cycle unit for temp) and a Carel controller for temp monitoring and defrost cycling.

A case is cheaper to purchase and install than a room - no floor setdown or heater pads, all insert lights and frame heaters pre-wired to nice easy to reach terminals, drainage kit comes with the cases (not to mention no drain heater required), trolley protection (bumper) already installed, adjustable shelving, baskets, ticketstripping and product fences, even available in the colour of your choice with some manufacturers. All of these items need to be purchased separately when building the insitu room. Quality of the finished product - at least you can see what you are getting with a case, some coolrooms look good finished, others leave a lot to be desired, warranty is easier to address with a case - it has 1 manufacturer, not different suppliers/contractors that need to be chased up.

A case is a LOT easier to work on than a ceiling mounted evap in an insitu room, to service the insitu evap you need to remove the majority of shelves and climb into the bloody thing. At least with a case with coil at the bottom you remove product off base trays and you have easy access to fans, coils, heaters, klixons, etc. If the room is not going to be big enough to incorporate storage AND display then a case is a FAR better option.

[lowcool]

after ten years youll have a piece of crap,after ten years youll have a servicable piece of crap multiple choices at least being servicable with parts replacement not being a prob,strip back wall to replace a probe(is it here or is it there)de ice a coil in the base with a hose across the floor ten years ago maybe.wet insulation in base from freeze ups open circuit fan motors.proper maintenance is whats called for by the manufacturer of cases,i think you now the answer to that,tickets blocking drain holes never seen that in a case.sorry 750 valve i have more faith in myself and local suppliers than some imported piece of malarkie.id sooner remove a door of stock than remove the bottom plus panels etc.what is viable in the long run is what matters.cases can be good but they have to be of good quality $$$ but maintaining themselves just doesnt happen.your back and knees will feel so much better as for the client he doesnt care as long as sales are up and replacement parts are readilly available

[750 Valve]

Ever seen a 10 year old Franklins with an insitu freezer... I guess not or you'd know better.

After 10 years the insitu is thrashed, after 10 years a case is looking at its first refurb. There are Austral LV5H cases in Woolies and Coles that would easily be onto their 3rd or 4th refurb (that would make them manufactured in the late eighties) and unless some clown doesn't seal them up they are still going strong.

FYI cases are not all imported, there are 2 case manufacturers in Australia and both have readily available spares and a HUGE market share here so they aren't going anywhere in a hurry.

Bases only freeze if you drill holes in them and don't seal the vapour barrier - same as coolroom panel does so nothing different there.

Probes are located via a conduit and draw wire to nearly the same spot in all cases, only someone who doesn't know what they are doing can't find them (you can change a probe in 5 mins using the old one to pull a new one through if youi are smart), if a case needs a probe then so to does an insitu room, no difference there, in fact the coil in the insitu room is harder to access than the case - a good service mechanic will likely not even have to remove stock from a case to replace a probe, not so for an insitu room with glass door - you need to empty the bloody thing to do any works on it.

A case has the same chance of icing up as an insitu room and you need a hose to deice them both, dribbling water from the ceiling is a LOT messier than in the base of a case where the whole carcass is a drain tray (ask anyone who has deiced a Frigrite EZID case which is basically an insitu room with ceiling mounted evap - a real P.I.T.A.).

Here's the thing, if an insitu room was better value, less maintenance and provided more sales than a glass door freezer case then all the major supermarkets would have them (after all they are the KINGS of spending as little to get as much as possible) but they don't.

Ask any supermarket mechanic whether they'd rather work on a ceiling mount or a base mounted evap and I bet you 90% will take the base mounted one. Seems the supermarket owners think the same way as the majority are base mounted.

[steemy]

Have to agree with 750 valve in a big big way there. I may only be a young pup but in the 6 years i worked at AJ Bakers in perth we serviced and installed a lot of glass door freezers and it is so simple to see cases are better than rooms. Insul rooms are an absolute nightmare unless there is an actual storage area behind so you can access the evaporator instead of emptying every shelf just to get a look at the thing. and i think 60 to 80 ft of glass door cases in a store all lined up looks amazing
Know all to well about de icing EZIDs 750 valve. not fun,water all over the stock in a big way.