View Full Version : liquid refrigerant pumping

17-02-2004, 12:43 AM
This technloogy has been around for a good 15 years. I met the guy who was pushing this when I worked for the County of LA so I decided to try it on a large cooler and a Public Social Service Building. I found that I t did indeed save about 6% energy costs. You can take advantage of lower condenser pressures when it's cooler outside, anyway, it's interesting reading for those of you who are not familier with this technology. Fun stuff!!
veritas vos liberabit...the truth shall make you free

17-02-2004, 05:08 AM
Ok Mark, but what are you saying?
cogito ergo sum

17-02-2004, 08:50 PM
mark's presentation is explaining clearly the whole thing.

one question, is the pump mgnetic or a standart shaft seal?


17-02-2004, 09:06 PM

17-02-2004, 09:28 PM

Why can't you use the pumps they normally fit in ammonia systems?

17-02-2004, 09:31 PM
next question,

how do you choose the capacity/size of the pump?


18-02-2004, 02:05 AM
Accordong to the mnfg. you get about a 20# increase in pressure if I remember correctly.
cheers... i like that!

18-02-2004, 10:15 AM
Just to get an idea: what does the smallest liquid refrigerant pump cost? I might be interested in one to use as recirculation pump in an experiment with a very small flooded evap system.

Calvin Becker
30-05-2004, 10:12 AM
Marc calculated min flow capacity through a 1/4" x 1m tube with a pressure drop of @ 20 psig to provide about 3.78 GPM of flow. It is this that you must consider when your pack system unloads to minimum capacity (due to delivering 100% pure liquid to expansion valves) when selecting hysave liquid pumps.

Calvin Becker
30-05-2004, 10:14 AM
Our small liquid pumps cost about $285.00. But then again if you wish to use it on the low side, there are many other pumps available the same.

Calvin Becker
30-05-2004, 11:41 AM
Good morning Marc, Glad to see that you are having time for yourself. :)

Yes indeed, you are right :)

07-09-2004, 05:12 AM
6% Energy saving is probably kWh on KWh.

If you convert that to money terms based on the tarrif of your country and compare with the cost of these magnetically-coupled pumps , the payback ( or NPV) is not so attarctive.

For this to economically work in Asia , the country's energy tarrif must be quite high ( e.g. Vietnam/China ) and the pumps must be sold cheaper than today's price from Hysave.

Solution : Get Hysave ( or someone else ) to make these pumps in China and get into the retrofit business in China - then expand into other parts of Asia and out of Asia back to US & Europe. ( Those harping on dwindling jobs back in the West will not warm to this but that's bare facts and this will continue to happen )

07-09-2004, 05:00 PM
it's not the cost of the pump to produce-it's the margin calvin makes ;-))

besides the savings are made in cooler climates rather than tropical conditions



07-09-2004, 05:53 PM
Hi Richard.

Two Hysave pumps was installed last week in a big supermarket in Israel, hot climate, over 20% savings on the electricity bill.

I have met Calvin there and it looks like the Hysave has a good and promising future over here.

Chemi :)

Calvin Becker
07-09-2004, 09:45 PM
I miss Israel. Having travelled to many different countries, where I stayed, reminded me very much of the coastline of California but better. Palm trees, white sands, blue waters and pretty girls. Especially those in uniform! Chemmi, it was a pleasure meeting with you and I do hope to see you soon. Yesterday, 5 days since commissioning the packs, had heard from Smart Energy, "packs still maintaining 40'C condensing both HT & LT, ambient 30'C, reduction in KWH 24 and 21 percent" Saying that
cooler periods towards the year end should take these reductions up to 35 to 40%.
We were able to increase suction temp from -32'C due to starvation back to -27'C to include suction line temp drop.
2 out of 4 HT compressors switched off something never seen, while the LT pack ran on 2 out of 6 compressors. Approximately 15 gallons of oil was removed from the system.
Have to go but in the meantime, I look forward to assisting Smart Energy in their achievements in completing the other 179 supermarkets. Cant wait to return!

All the best and happy pumping...have to rush!

hy|save Refrigeration
Calvin Becker

www.hysave.com :)

08-09-2004, 06:31 PM
Hi Calvin.

Where did all that oil came from?

I have set a meeting for the Smart Energy guys at the second biggest dairy at the south, not far from the red sea.
I hope they will know how to "pocket" them but this time I will go too. After all it is in my "teritory" .

I do hope it will all go well.
The way I see it, it is the biggest development in refrigeration systems in many years and..... it works fine!

Chemi :)

08-09-2004, 09:10 PM
It certainly did not come from Iraq.. :)

Calvin Becker
08-09-2004, 10:36 PM

The oil seperators on the packs are probably only 98% efficient. Saying that, 2 % of oil excapes but if it doesent return due to low return velocities due to poor liquid delivery to the valves, then over the past six years that system had been runningat those conditions and service teams comming and going, had been adding oil to maintain minimum sight glass conditions as normal. Getting 100% liquid to all eevs does increase vapour return velocity and of course oil return.

Oil filters were changed as well. This was required due to the age of oil returned.

:) Happy pumping...

Calvin Becker