PDA

View Full Version : Swimming pool



Peter_1
20-12-2003, 09:20 AM
I know, this has nothing to see with HVAC/R but I want some info for a friend of mine who wants to build a swimming pool where we plan to install a heatpump with an earth coil.

And because this is a forum with only smart guys, sometimes with brilliant ideas, a broad experience, I give it a trie here in this forum.

Before he starts he want as mutch as possible information.
He talked already with a contractor.

Dimensions: 10 m (+/- 30 ft) x 5 m(+/- 51 ft) x 1,5 ft deep (+/- 5ft)
Temperature of the water:28C
Mean temperatures in summer like in the UK (It's now 10C here in Belgium on the 20 Dec. There has to be snow and hard freezing temperatures right now. Never had this before. The world is really warming up)
Swimming pool outdoors
Swimming pool will be covered with an isolation blanket (or how do you call that thing)

Questions:
Someone told that a heating capacity of 15 kW will be sufficient. What do you think?

I suggested to isolate the walls under the ground but the contractor said this was never done. I was surprised.

Someone some experience with heatpumps with a DX earthcoil?

Desinfection of the water: chemical or with an ozone system (don't know mutch of this)

Some usefull URL's are also good. Did alreday some searches via Google.

chemi-cool
20-12-2003, 01:23 PM
hi peter,

insulating the swimming pool walls from the outside and bottom is very good idea but will have its cost.

you can work out the the heat loss or gain through the walls: BTU/square foot/HOUR.

if swimming pool in covered erea, heating will be needed in the winter to keep the air arround dry and to avoid condensation.

calculating the energy required is as simple as: MC deltaT

we use at this side of the world LPG heat exchagers for the job. they do need a heating unit as LPG gets "lazy" when its cold

websites:
http://www.atonsolar.nl/swimmingpool.htm
http://www.apte-hamburg.de/English/Products/Shellandtube/Swimmingpool/swimmingpool.html
http://www.lgma.org.au/national/LGMFebMar2003/Swimmingpool.htm

chemi

Bones
20-12-2003, 03:51 PM
10x5x1.5 metres? ifso thats 75000 litres or 75000kq of water... damn i've had a few too many bourbons................

you would want the walls insulated and an insulated blanket for when pool is not in use i would believe.

then again living here in aus you would think we would be trying to cool ur pools down, but heated pools are all the rage for the 2 months of a year when it might hit 5'c at 6am.

i would presume the most comon method of heating where i live would be solar radiation, they pump the water outa the pool onto the roof though snakes of flexible pipe to obsorb heat off roof then pump it back.

chemi-cool
20-12-2003, 04:27 PM
hi bones,

you try solar heating in belgium in the winter and you get ice cubes!!

chemi

Peter_1
20-12-2003, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Marc O'Brien
Also, I did a spread sheet on swimming pool water and heat loss.

A while back a geothermal company wanted me to help them develop an associated system for pool rooms. ....I can't say what, because I signed a "keep the details a sectret" form. Funny thing, this was during this last spring, the company kept delaying the project right the way through spring, kept postponing the meetings until the very hot summer weather was right uppon us and we were suddenly as busy as f**k, then suddenly they wanted me to come in a develop the idea. Had to say sorry, middle of summer is not economical R&D time.

I can give you parts of the spread sheet if you wish.

Everything is welcome Marc. As far as I have seen on your website, you are more then a refrigeration genious.

FreezerGeezer
20-12-2003, 09:53 PM
Peter, it's not exactly on topic, but my Dad in law's pool uses a salt purification system, rather than chlorine. It seems to be a very popular system Down Under, but unfortunately no-one in the UK seems to have heard of it. All the gyms we've been involved with recently have got smelly, stinging chlorine. <sigh> The salt system much nicer on the skin than chlorine, and doesn't sting your eyes.

Back on topic, freinds at Linde once told me of a project where they were deliberately freezing the ground around a storage cave, instead of sealing it with concrete or some such. It was a developement of mining / tunneling technology.
Unfortunately, the ground just kept on freezing way past the calculated width of the frozen 'wall'! Seems that the surrounding ground temp. was low enough that they were creating an artificial permafrost. Eventually, the plant was turned off before any damage could be done to the surrounding area (underground pipes, cables and stuff, I suppose. Never did get all the story). But, they calculated that it will take something over 100 years for it all to thaw!

Moral of the story: Be careful with earth coils in cold climates! lol

rbartlett
20-12-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Peter_1
Everything is welcome Marc. As far as I have seen on your website, you are more then a refrigeration genious.


yes coming to the uk really has made all the difference to marc and he has expanded in more ways than one...



cheers


richard

Peter_1
20-12-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by chemi-cool
hi bones,

you try solar heating in belgium in the winter and you get ice cubes!!

chemi

Indeed Chemi

Peter_1
20-12-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by FreezerGeezer


Back on topic, freinds at Linde once told me of a project where they were deliberately freezing the ground around a storage cave, instead of sealing it with concrete or some such. It was a developement of mining / tunneling technology.
Unfortunately, the ground just kept on freezing way past the calculated width of the frozen 'wall'! Seems that the surrounding ground temp. was low enough that they were creating an artificial permafrost. Eventually, the plant was turned off before any damage could be done to the surrounding area (underground pipes, cables and stuff, I suppose. Never did get all the story). But, they calculated that it will take something over 100 years for it all to thaw!

Moral of the story: Be careful with earth coils in cold climates! lol

For heavy and huge underground works (new metrotunnels) in Antwerp, they injected liquid nitrogen via large stainless steel tubes into the underground to make an underground dam (a wall of frozen mud) which prevented collapsing the wall and also prevented entering water into the tunnels.

Our earthcolis don't come that cold that we have to be afraid of it.:D

Bones
21-12-2003, 08:23 AM
just letting you know how easy pool heating can be here in the land downunder lol. Maybe your mate could sell ice?

I did think of that problem long after i scrapped myself outa the hangover this morning