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Latte
06-01-2008, 03:49 PM
Hi all,

In a previous post i said that the vector was a modern equivilent of a transfrig in that the diesel motor drives a genny to power the rest of the system. Probably not to complimentary about the vector but i hop you know where i am coming from. it got me thinking, does history show us the way we should be going. New units are fantastic, TK & carrier are always moving forward. We now have microprocessor control to tenths of a degree, electronic throttling valves, DAS/DRS and so on. are units these days just too complicated.
Lets take an example. Someone who carriers frozen loads all the time -18. surely an snwd will do the job as well as a vector/SL400 and at a fraction of the cost. As far as i am aware none of the big boys do a bulk standard no flashing lights unit with just a standard dial stat TG4 for example

Regards

Fatboy

thermo prince
06-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Yes, always a fair comment on direction things are going.

In short, I think if Europe wanted and lobbied for such a simple unit, they would get it. A toned down SL as you still need that basic slim profile for your 13.7m trailers & king pin issues ( versus USA Canada ANZ). I dont knw CTC 's European models so well but they would have simialr issue with their SL equivalent

USA in past year or so did a basic Super 11 " Grocery unit" for supermarket trailers. There's a basic SB platform in the pipeline also.
TG iv sadly cannot be (easily) resurrected due to vendor issue I believe. I asked for that too on an Asian economic series project. TG v is about as far back as you can hope to go right now. But who knows ... the customer is king & the driver of this business and rightly so.

regards
T-P

absolute-zero
06-01-2008, 06:57 PM
1st Examine what the technology does.

I find all this technology is good, I do not think you can compare an old SNWD to a new unit of today.

Keep in mind that SNWDS do not have the heating or cooling capacity as the units do today.

I remeber when i first started out servicing this stuff, afetr i made my repairs, i would put unit outside running, set the T-Stat to zero degrees, and check it a few hours later, and still not reach setpoint.

Units of today, set the set point statrt the unit, go park it all with in 15 minute time, the unit is reaching -20 degre setpoint.

Will the SNWD do it? of course it will if its running good, but not know where as efficient of todays units with ETV's

The only other issue that i see as an issue in todays technology is with Optiset-Fresh set, And carriers intelliset. I think that confuses many, especially technicians/and drivers.

Many time i have gotten calls concerning no Auto start stop mode operation, no continouse running mode of operation. the unit will only come with in 5-6f degrees of setpoint via return air temp reading.

I have had many calls on thies isssues, I have even heard of technicians making costly mistakes of changing the micros or controllers in efforts to correct driver complaint.

There has to be a higher level or more frequent education on these topics as well get them to the technicians and or fleets, dealerships that service the stuff.

In a nut shell I am alll about the technology, however i remain skeptical in how its being delivered to the people that service the stuff.

I would go to confrences take in all the info, and share it with my technicians, but not all do this.

When opitset was first introduced, it was introduced to the sales guys, They were told all the features it would do as a selling feature.

The selling features were maximum temp management, fuel savings, reduce risk of driver operator errors, reduced load rejections on produce with top freeze and est.

I remember my district service manager here for TK used to do so many policies and pay for so many mistakes. in efforts to keep the King the customer happy along with the dealership techs and service managers. It is importatnt to have a large network of dealers but not as important as it is to strengthen it through communication.;)

Back to the original question, Examine what the technology does.

Its makes units more versatile.
It increases capacity (Reaches set point faster)
It ruduces fuel consumtion (saves money in fuel)
It reduces unit run time ( reduces manteance costs)
Precise temperature management (reduces load rejections HASP the cold chain war)
Quiter running units, (Not a nuisance to public noise ordance laws)
Telematics TraKing (peace of mind all of the time)

My list can keep going on with benfits to the the new technolgy and what it can do for the customer through out its life of ownership.:D

I say keep advancing the technolgy people will eventually catch on the big picture.

A little word on tg-4, i have converted many units including thermoguard 3 rd generation t-stats in old snwds to TG5.
there is a little fabrication and wiring involved and some relay kits to install but works well. ;)

Regards A-Z

Latte
06-01-2008, 11:24 PM
Evening all,

Dont worry, my post wasnt to start a campaign to bring back the nwd/snwd, i only used them as an example of a basic reefer unit. My point that i probably didnt explain very well was how much does all this stuff cost.

By all means, use the latest efficient engines so there is less noise and better fuel consumption but all these extra bits mush cost thousands. i aggree that units these days are versatile and can be used at all temp, fresh through to deepfreeze but is every customer going to need Electronic throttling valves, Modulation, DAR/DRS/logic. What i wnated to say was surely some customers are paying thousands over the odd for extra's that they will never use and that they may want a basic unit, basic controller (Driver Proof) for the same loads day in day out. How many people actually use the units on electric anyway but i would hazard at a guess there are hardly any 30 units out there

Regards

Fatboy

absolute-zero
06-01-2008, 11:55 PM
Evening all,

Dont worry, my post wasnt to start a campaign to bring back the nwd/snwd, i only used them as an example of a basic reefer unit. My point that i probably didnt explain very well was how much does all this stuff cost.

By all means, use the latest efficient engines so there is less noise and better fuel consumption but all these extra bits mush cost thousands. i aggree that units these days are versatile and can be used at all temp, fresh through to deepfreeze but is every customer going to need Electronic throttling valves, Modulation, DAR/DRS/logic. What i wnated to say was surely some customers are paying thousands over the odd for extra's that they will never use and that they may want a basic unit, basic controller (Driver Proof) for the same loads day in day out. How many people actually use the units on electric anyway but i would hazard at a guess there are hardly any 30 units out there

Regards

Fatboy

Hi Fatboy,

Electric standby is a optional accessorie that can be elected to be bought as an extra, per customers needs.

There are units that can be purchased with out all the added accessories for an example the MD100 truck unit. it is a stripped doewn cost effective approach for the customers that do not have a large need of cooling capacity. some components are not installed in this unit mainly nameing the heat exchanger.

Tk also is launching a stripped down cost effective approach in Trailer nose mount units mainly nameing the model SB-200TG. This unit idoes not have optiset and other features that typical SB/SL 210 would have. It looks similiar it sound similiar but does not behave the same. It will have less capacity due to no etv, it will not come with a micro controller that accomodates Optiset or fresh set, It will not come with Data aqusition system, or any of those othe highly respected features. that most customers need.

All the technolgie that goes into the units, is not only to meet HASP, but as well meet global issues such as fuel and other changes outside of the transport temperture control sysstems.

Everyone is trying to meet new stadards that are set along with being ready for new satndards set for future.

TK or Cariier do not enjoy getting these new obsatcles and standards as they know this will hike the cost of the units, however if the change needs to be made to sell these machines for use in all strict laws pertaining to emmisions on a global level it is what it is.

It is still actually cheaper to build standard units than it tis to build one specific to each and every customers specific needs, So many vendors and engineering is involved to build specific units that can meet all sitiuations and applications.

you will not find any TRU maker out ther that can build a specific unit for less cost than these two giant OEMS.

If they could they would do it.:D

Regards A-Z

SKOOBY
17-01-2008, 01:15 AM
I have been in this industy for thirty one years.
I think Lumikko is the Base unit and would be very
popular in the uk with the right marketing
There are actually two in service with no problems doing a reliable job

absolute-zero
17-01-2008, 02:15 AM
I have been in this industy for thirty one years.
I think Lumikko is the Base unit and would be very
popular in the uk with the right marketing
There are actually two in service with no problems doing a reliable job

Hey Skooby,

I never heard of this unit, who makes it?

Do you have any information on this unit that supports, its market value, in reliability?

I would be curiouse to read up on it.

Thanks A-Z

The Viking
17-01-2008, 02:29 AM
A-Z,
This (http://www.lumikko.com/eng/index.php) might be a good place to start.

Tesla
17-01-2008, 08:51 AM
No we don't need all this technology - we already have it . We need more more more. Where would we be without it? Even though most of it comes from history like the Bagdad Battery and ... I could go on

absolute-zero
17-01-2008, 04:49 PM
A-Z,
This (http://www.lumikko.com/eng/index.php) might be a good place to start.

Thanks Viking, that was enlightning.

We do not have those here in the US. and also am not sure if there found in Canada either.

I saw mitsuibishi has an attractive truck unit, but we do not see them here in our region.

These are the OE units popular here for truck trailer Refrigeration:
1.Thermo King
2.Carrier Transicold
3.advance temperature control (ATC)
4.Zanotti, starting to penetrate the market here.

A-Z

SKOOBY
24-01-2008, 01:37 AM
Hey Skooby,

I never heard of this unit, who makes it?

Do you have any information on this unit that supports, its market value, in reliability?

I would be curiouse to read up on it.

Thanks A-Z
They are made in Finland.They have a web site.
They manufature Transport and Commercial units

absolute-zero
24-01-2008, 10:18 PM
They are made in Finland.They have a web site.
They manufature Transport and Commercial units


Thanks Skooby,
I went to the wesite and read up on them last week.;)
Regards A-Z

LUMIKKO
16-02-2009, 05:51 AM
Thanks Skooby,
I went to the wesite and read up on them last week.;)
Regards A-Z

Hi Absolute-Zero.

Plese visit Lumikko web page again. Now there is new pages and more information about units. See especially model 400GS, the most quietest nose mounted trailer unit...

Will
16-02-2009, 11:53 AM
Do we need all this technologyGood post Latte and I agree.

For the past many yrs I have worked for Maersk.

I have witnessed the attempt to control discharge/return temps down to the nats ass.

Then almost over night we went into a 'save energy' mode.
Controlling the temp technology went right out the window.