R410A Connections

[Pooh]

Hi Folks
does anybody know if it is an agreed European Standard for connections on R410A equipment to be 5/16" instead of 1/4" as used with all other refrigerants. This has come to light due to some equipment being sent in from the USA with 1/4" connections.

Ian

[Dan]

Aha! This explains why Peter and I disagreed on the connection sizes. It must be a Euro thing.

[BigJon3475]

I was thinking sort of the same thing. 1/4" is common here for the smaller 410a system that have short runs.

[paul_h]

All are 5/16" in australia too.
Do you guys in the US just have to buy three sets of gauges? Ie, regular 1/4" set, 5/16" set and then a 1/4" set for high pressure for use on R410a?

I'm just asking because I like my regular 1/4" set and use them where I can due to the more accurate scale. I wouldn't want them stuffed up by putting them on a high pressure R410a system, so hat would mean I'd need to get 1/4" guages with a higher scale on them.

[Argus]

Hi Folks
does anybody know if it is an agreed European Standard for connections on R410A equipment to be 5/16" instead of 1/4" as used with all other refrigerants. This has come to light due to some equipment being sent in from the USA with 1/4" connections.

Ian



The European standard on refrigeration safety is EN 378. It's harmonised to the PED and, if I recall, suggests that flares be avoided.

The equivalent International standard is ISO 5149 - 1993.

There are no other standards or statutory arrangements that I know of.

As I remember, the larger flare connection is a convention adopted in the early manufacture of small split systems by the (mainly) Japanese manufacturers in this field.

So, I think that the larger connection is used by convention, rather than regulation.
The main criteria are that the ancillary equipment is fit for purpose and is safe.
If it were intended that standard gauges should not be used, for obvious reasons, then perhaps the higher pressure units should have a different thread on the service ports. You would need the co-operation of all the manufacturers for this and it’s a bit late in the day to change now.

.

[BigJon3475]

All are 5/16" in australia too.
Do you guys in the US just have to buy three sets of gauges? Ie, regular 1/4" set, 5/16" set and then a 1/4" set for high pressure for use on R410a?

I'm just asking because I like my regular 1/4" set and use them where I can due to the more accurate scale. I wouldn't want them stuffed up by putting them on a high pressure R410a system, so hat would mean I'd need to get 1/4" guages with a higher scale on them.


Well I miss understood the question in the first place. I thought he was asking about line sets I read it wrong. Yes the majority of our connections are 1/4". You usually only need two set's of gauges one for each ref.

[paul_h]

I was just asking because my regular 1/4" gauge sets max out at 1000kpa LP and 3000kpa HP, while r410a runs on a/cs at 900kpa LP, and 2500kpa HP (and often 3300+ on heating).
That's the main reason why all r410a systems here are 5/16", so you get another set get higher pressure rating hoses, mainfold and gauges.
I know I wouldn't want to bugger up my low pressure gauges (which I need when doing accurate superheats and subcooling) by putting them on a some 1/4" flare r410a system and maxing them out all the time.

[Lowrider]

That's why I don't have a 410 gauge! I don't work on mickey mouse equipment!;)

[BigJon3475]

We have gauges for 22 and 410a in 1/4" sizes. I'm not sure whats going on now....Do you guys not have 1/4" 410a gauges?

This site has practically every gauge available for the US.

http://www.hvacr-tools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=HVACR&Category_Code=MANIFOLDSGAUGES

[taz24]

We have gauges for 22 and 410a in 1/4" sizes. I'm not sure whats going on now....Do you guys not have 1/4" 410a gauges?

This site has practically every gauge available for the US.

http://www.hvacr-tools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=HVACR&Category_Code=MANIFOLDSGAUGES


Its not that the gauges arn't rated for the pressure(normal gauges are rated at about 75b), the gauges and equipment are sized different so that people can't work on the higher pressure by mistake without realising it.

taz

Just an added bit of security.

[BigJon3475]

Ohhh......nope not here.....:D use at your own risk..

[dynapak]

i have it on good authority that the reason for using 5/16 gauge line and manifold set is that the manifold set is made to a higher bursting pressure than that of the old type standard gauge manifold set
also i have heard that in the uk in the last couple of weeks or so the hse has become involved due to an engineer either being killed or seriously injured using the 1/4 gauge set on a 410 sytem
i am also told the standard gauge set the charging eye is either neporene or a plastic seal compared to 410 set which has metal or a brass seal

[paul_h]

We have gauges for 22 and 410a in 1/4" sizes. I'm not sure whats going on now....Do you guys not have 1/4" 410a gauges?

This site has practically every gauge available for the US.

http://www.hvacr-tools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=HVACR&Category_Code=MANIFOLDSGAUGES
Sorry, I thought you (or someone else) said that smaller r410a a/cs have 1/4" fittings, that made me think that larger r410a systems over there have 5/16" connections, which means you'd need three sets of gauges.
I've noticed a few cheap made in china 1/4" sets that have r410a type pressure graduations on them (ie lp up to 2000kpa, hp up to 5000kpa) also 1/4" lines rated at high pressure. I guess this is why they are rated so high, for the US market.
But no r410a a/c here ever comes in 1/4" schraders, so we have the low pressure 1/4" stuff and high pressure 5/16" r410a stuff.