Any Air Con installers in Leeds area? - Refrigeration-Engineer.com forums

back2space · #1 15-10-2009, 04:03 PM

Guys if theres any one in the Leeds area that would like a cash job to fit a 3rd indoor unit to already installed multi split unit.

Unit already here just need materials etc.

Please message me or email me at E MAIL ADDRESS REMOVED BY THE MODERATOR Please use the PM facility

Thanks.

mad fridgie · #2 16-10-2009, 04:57 AM

I will install for free, you just pay all travel costs!

superswill · #3 16-10-2009, 09:33 AM

back to space, its a brave man that gets in front of your mini split

this saga has been running longer than corre

your Patience is unquestionable

taz24 · #4 16-10-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad fridgie

I will install for free, you just pay all travel costs!

What a fantastic offer

You sacrificing your summer to come to our winter..

Blo ody good chap.

taz.

mad fridgie · #5 16-10-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taz24

What a fantastic offer

You sacrificing your summer to come to our winter..

Blo ody good chap.

taz.

Well I can nip across the wee hills and see my me mummy

back2space · #6 26-10-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superswill

back to space, its a brave man that gets in front of your mini split

this saga has been running longer than corre

your Patience is unquestionable

Yes I know.

The fact is that I have been messed around so much by the original installer who said he was going to take out the lg and fit mitsi I have been given all sorts of tales and lies.

His company has now moved to wigan apparently and hes left the company so not sure what I am going to do re warranty etc.

The thing is he installed the original system as a favour in return for me passing his details onto our contracts team at work as we do facilities management for many large companies such as banks, the met etc.

SO all in all got a good deal on the original equipment.

Since I have been messed around so much it is no longer doing me any good keep chasing it as he clearly isnt interested. I thought best to just get a 3rd unit installed as im only gonna be living here another couple of years so when I get my own place will have the big brand label stuff installed!

Dont suppose you fancy doing it do you superswill?

back2space · #7 02-11-2009, 03:40 PM

Had my units serviced today,

He stripped the covers, sprayed the coils, cleaned filters and fans and any other build up of dust then put it back together along with outdoor coil.

Didnt need to rinse due to no rinse formula.

THe 3rd unit into the back room now complete this is connected to the multi split that runs my other 2 indoor units.

Only problem I have come across now is that due to constant refrigerant circulation on units that are thermostat off (eev valve remains open 10% to allow oil return) this is still enough refrigerant to raise the coil temp above 40C so that the fan comes on to clear heat from the coil, this is raising the temp in rooms that dont need the heat, meaning the back room which is the coldest room of them all could do with that heat is taking longer to warm up!

In theory yes the outdoor unit is over capacity if all three units are running demanding heat but reality of it is that 2 units are pysically switched on, only one is demanding heat so it should have the full capacity of the outdoor unit to itself.

It doesnt seem to be getting this as the air off temp is not as warm as if only one unit was pysically on.

If one unit is pysically switched on then air off temp is about 42C if 2 units are pysically switched on but only one is thermo on then the air off temp on the one that is thermo on is about 32C.

I think those EEVs are staying open too far as the coils still get warm if they are pysically switched off but not as much as when the are thermo off and switched on.

Any ideas? I know that if all three are running thermo on I can expect slower warm up but not if only one is running and the others are at standby thermo off.

HMMMMM.....

back2space · #8 02-11-2009, 05:57 PM

LG are saying the unit is under charged but total pipe run is 40metres across all 3 units. THat is only one way though not to the unit and back to the outdoor unit.

Whats it pre charged to?

Page 5 FM25ah

http://mylg.co.uk/data%20for%20site/...%20outdoor.pdf

Slim R410a · #9 03-11-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2space

LG are saying the unit is under charged but total pipe run is 40metres across all 3 units. THat is only one way though not to the unit and back to the outdoor unit.

Whats it pre charged to?

Page 5 FM25ah

http://mylg.co.uk/data%20for%20site/...%20outdoor.pdf

Looks like its pre-charged to 7.5m??

back2space · #10 03-11-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim R410a

Looks like its pre-charged to 7.5m??

Surely not on a unit this big?

**frank** · #11 03-11-2009, 08:34 PM

It says that it is charged with 2kg from the factory.

Tha maximum of connected units can be 4 with a total 1 way pipe length(all units) of 70m. Any 1 indoor unit cannot be over 25m from the outdoor (including bends).

I can't see where the additional charge amount is stated though? (g/m)

back2space · #12 03-11-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

It says that it is charged with 2kg from the factory.

Tha maximum of connected units can be 4 with a total 1 way pipe length(all units) of 70m. Any 1 indoor unit cannot be over 25m from the outdoor (including bends).

I can't see where the additional charge amount is stated though? (g/m)

So does that mean its charged the equivalent of 70 metres then?

LG are saying he needs to follow this...

If you go to page 3 of this link:

http://mylg.co.uk/data%20for%20site/...missioning.pdf

Theres a formula, now the total pipe run is approx 42metres hes measuring properly tmrw.

Go by the FM24 and do the sums I work out that

42m x 20 grams /m = 840g

Then we do the correction factor... 840g - 450g = 390g to add.

Is this correct?

**frank** · #13 04-11-2009, 08:51 PM

Not being familiar with LG (thank goodness), it's difficult to offer a correct response without knowing the whole set up.

Can you post the model numbers of all the equipment, i.e. outdoor and indoor unit models and pipework distances for each fan coil from the outdoor unit?
It should then be straightforward to look up the info and post back.

back2space · #14 04-11-2009, 09:05 PM

Ok the indoors are

MV12AH x2
MS12AH N40 x1

Outdoor is FM25ah.

Installer has been out tonight, he has put a total of 640g in.

The total pipe run is 39metres.

Dont ask me how he calculated it but he used scales and then added more in as he said it was still taking the refrigerant in.

Afterwards he tested the system, in cooling previously with only 2 indoor units running the outdoor fan would be spinning really slow, the cooling effect seemed fine indoors and we could always reach set points. This was with an outdoor ambient of perhaps 24C.

Now with an outdoor ambient of 9c the fan in cooling mode is rotating a lot faster? Maybe it was undercharged last time or the original installers did something?

Heating performance seems ok but will this additional ammount of approx 310g over the 330 that should have been added cause problems.

For example if the system is pre charged with 450grams and your only using 250g of that, where is that other 250g stored?

Given that the system is pre charged with 450g, this will be in the pipework somewhere presumably.

So if another 450g was put into the system and it was too much would it just store that internally in the outdoor unit?

Im not sure why the fan is now running faster in cooling?

back2space · #15 04-11-2009, 10:02 PM

The 2 units that heated fine before seem to be running for longer now rather than reaching set point so quick whilst the other room has reached set point (this was the problem unit if running on its own with the other 2 at thermo off)

AIr off temps of these units dont seem as high but its still maintaining ok and the temp is 23C in my lounge and 22 in the bedrooms.

We would also have the issue of the units that were thermo off would still be blowing warm air as the coil temp would rise sufficienty enough for the cold air prevention to let the fans start, now the fans are not running for as long on units that are thermo off? Not sure if thats a good thing but means the other rooms are not overheating as much as these were always at thermo off due to low set points.

Not sure if this is a good thing or means the system is now overcharged and not producing as much heat.

Air in temp 22C at floor level which is where the unit pulls its air from

Air off 35.5C.

Room temp 24C measured at controller,

Just been out and felt the outdoor, blowing air cold like it normally does, plenty of water running out from underneath, felt back of the coil, no ice build up anywhere on the coil, particulary at the bottom.

Thanks.

**frank** · #16 05-11-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2space

Ok the indoors are

MV12AH x2
MS12AH N40 x1

Outdoor is FM25ah.

Installer has been out tonight, he has put a total of 640g in.

The total pipe run is 39metres.

Dont ask me how he calculated it but he used scales and then added more in as he said it was still taking the refrigerant in.

Afterwards he tested the system, in cooling previously with only 2 indoor units running the outdoor fan would be spinning really slow, the cooling effect seemed fine indoors and we could always reach set points. This was with an outdoor ambient of perhaps 24C.

Now with an outdoor ambient of 9c the fan in cooling mode is rotating a lot faster? Maybe it was undercharged last time or the original installers did something?

Heating performance seems ok but will this additional ammount of approx 310g over the 330 that should have been added cause problems.

For example if the system is pre charged with 450grams and your only using 250g of that, where is that other 250g stored?

Given that the system is pre charged with 450g, this will be in the pipework somewhere presumably.

So if another 450g was put into the system and it was too much would it just store that internally in the outdoor unit?

Im not sure why the fan is now running faster in cooling?

Looking at the links you posted, your outdoor unit is rated at nominal 7.03kW cooling and 8.44kW heating.

With 3 x 3.5kw indoor units connected to it (36000btu's) the total output from the compressor in heating will be split evenly across the 3 indoor units (2.81kW each)(80.38% of rated duty)

Basically, you have connected 3 indoor units, that combined, are bigger than the outdoor capacity.

From the charge aspect, it would appear that the outdoor comes with a 2kg charge suitable for pipework upto 7.5m.

As your total pipework is 39m then an additional 31.5 m needs to be trim charged at a rate of 20g/m. This gives a total calculated charge of 2 + (31.5 x 0.02) = 2.63kg. Now, the charge instructions says to deduct 450g for a size 24 outdoor unit, making a revised total charge of 2.18kg.

If your 'engineer' has added in excess of this then the system is overcharged, according to the Manufacturer.

back2space · #17 05-11-2009, 10:36 PM

HI Frank

Thanks for that, we know that the unit is undersized if all 3 units are running together but the likelihood of the indoor units requiring full capacity at the same time is unlikely due to bedroom being kept at 18C this unit hardly ever comes on.

There is enough capacity in the outdoor to run 2 indoors and the outdoor unit should split its duty across the 2 units and means it should be pretty close to the size of the indoors should they be requiring full capacity at perhaps startup.

You mention the 2kg charge @ 7.5m.

The outdoor can connect upto 4 units so is that based on 4 units being connected at 7.5metres each or 30 metres total pipe run combined?

Anything over this 30metres requires the additional charge so what I can work out we are charging the outdoor unit for the extra 9 metres piperun?

Surely were not adding another 2.18kg to the system are we?

2kg of pre charge surely is capable of filling more than 7.5metres of pipework?

back2space · #18 06-11-2009, 03:20 PM

UPDATE:

The unit had a leak, at 2 of the flare nuts from the originally installed units from 2yrs ago.

The system was running with about 460g of refrigerant when it should have had in 2330g but was working fine in cooling!!

The guy who came out was great, did everything the right way.

Im so annoyed with the guy who fitted the 3rd unit, whilst his pipework was neat and no leaks from that his poor skills and refusing to weigh out the refrigerant properly by removing it all then weighing back in has meant that yes he added 640g to the measly 460g that it had left in it but did not detect the leaks etc and kept saying the system was performing well when clearly to anyone in the know who has any sense about them I knew it was not!

Unit now ramping up nicely and running at nice air offs and achieving nice hot temperatures... At least!

and I shall now breath and can relax knowing that I have found someone decent to service my units and who deserves more business due to doing things the right way.

Charged me £130 to sort out that was all work in and he was here from about 10am only just left at 2.

**frank** · #19 07-11-2009, 02:38 PM

If you look at page 210 (5 of 100) in the link that you posted earlier, http://mylg.co.uk/data%20for%20site/...%20outdoor.pdf
and scroll down to where it says 'Refrigerant' you will see that the factory charge is 2kg suitable for a connected pipework length of 7.5m. Any additional connected pipework over 7.5m will need a trim charge at the rate of 20g/m

back2space · #20 07-11-2009, 02:44 PM

He spoke to the distributor LG comfort cooling and also spoke to LG tech support who all told him to put in the ammount he did.

They stated the 2kg is suitable for 4 liquid runs of 7.5metres each, as the the unit can fit upto 4 units on it.

So are you saying its overcharged by about 130g?

Will this cause issues, its heating great and cooling seemed ok but obv not gonna be able to test that till summer now properly.

**frank** · #21 07-11-2009, 03:09 PM

In that case, the additional trim charge should be at 20g/m for any pipework over and above 7.5m on each run.

Hence my earlier question asking you to post the amount of pipework connected to each indoor coil, not just the total pipe length.

back2space · #22 07-11-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

In that case, the additional trim charge should be at 20g/m for any pipework over and above 7.5m on each run.

Hence my earlier question asking you to post the amount of pipework connected to each indoor coil, not just the total pipe length.

We have pipe runs of 24metres, 12metres, 3 metres.

Is the unit now overcharged and is this gonna cause problems?

This is LG's doing if it is, the engineer rang them to double check.

airconboy · #23 12-11-2009, 11:32 PM

hi

did my mate come sort it for you,i had to pass it one because i was too busy he said he was going to phone you

back2space · #24 13-11-2009, 12:47 AM

sorry not sure what your on about?

eggs · #25 13-11-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2space

Yes I know.

The fact is that I have been messed around so much by the original installer who said he was going to take out the lg and fit mitsi I have been given all sorts of tales and lies.

His company has now moved to wigan apparently and hes left the company so not sure what I am going to do re warranty etc.

Been talking to a gas engineer today, he has been ripped off by a Leeds company who now trade out of Wigan.
I wonder if it's the same company?

If anyone is worried about a Leeds or Wigan company owing them money, PM me the company names, I'll let you know if it's them or not.

Unfortunately naming and shaming is not allowed on the forums.

Eggs

back2space · #26 16-11-2009, 12:25 AM

it just so happened that eggs comfirmed it was the same company that I was dealing with who messed my installation up!

Typical!!

airconboy · #27 16-11-2009, 03:28 PM

its chris,you rang me oconnor air,i was busy on a job down south so i passed your number on to my friend chris,he said he would ring you,

back2space · #28 16-11-2009, 03:33 PM

HI mate.

U ok, its all sorted now and were running with great air off temps, flatmate actually complaining of being too warm in his room, have had to lower set point to 20c in there despite him being in there all day.

Lounge is at 22/23C and my bedroom the unit doesnt even come on its set at 19C.