charging refrigerant

[tichyt]

I have just completed a job, before I commission I want to know how to add refrigerant.

The longest run is 30m and the condenser is only charged for 20m.

My question is, when added extra refrigerant, do i add gas only or gas and liquid separately?

The refrigerant used is R410a and the units installed are Fujitsu. (refrigerant charge 50g/m)

Many thanks for any help.

[taz24]

I have just completed a job, before I commission I want to know how to add refrigerant.

The longest run is 30m and the condenser is only charged for 20m.

My question is, when added extra refrigerant, do i add gas only or gas and liquid separately?

The refrigerant used is R410a and the units installed are Fujitsu. (refrigerant charge 50g/m)

Many thanks for any help.

If you have to ask this are you realy ready to do the work??

This is basic and you should know how to charge refrigerant.

I and others will willingly give assisstance to you but if you contaminate the system or heavens forbid hurt yourself where would we be?

Ask yourself what type of refrigerant it is, "410" you say. 410 is a high pressure refrigerant and it is also a zeotropic...

Do you know what a zeotropic is?
If you do you will know how to charge it.

All the best and keep safe

taz

.

[tichyt]

i understand what your saying. i have been an engineer for the past last year. on most of my installs i have run pipes within the charge factor. therefore no refrigerant is needed. if i did need to use refrigerant i normally charge using R407c which as one output, not two like R410a.

[monkey spanners]

What Taz said,

Also, what i do is once the system has been pressure and leak tested with ofn, the ofn released and the system vacuumed, i would then break the vacuum with the extra 500g that your system needs, do this before you open the valves to let the factory charge out of the unit. I would then label the unit with the aditional charge so that in future someone hasn't got to go measuring pipe work and phoning fujitsu to find out the factory and trim charge specs.

[tichyt]

which valve do i use?

i have three, internal one (when you open the cover), gas line (5/8) and liquid side (3/8) i know not to use that one. the service book dont tell me a thing.

[monkey spanners]

Don't touch the internal one. Its the ones on the 5/8 and 3/8 pipe that are used for adding extra charge, these are the same ones you should be using for pressure testing and vacing out so it makes me wonder how you have been coping on the other systems you have been fitting.
I'm wondering how you have passed you f gas assesment as this sort of knowledge would have been in the practical test...
If you are wanting to continue in this trade it would be a good idea to get yourself on some training courses, many air con companies offer free ones, it save them money in the long run on warranty claims etc.

[Grizzly]

tichyt.
Your lack of knowledge for someone who calls them-self a Air con Engineer.
Scares me.
If you are just starting off then fair enough!
But if you are doing self installs!
I normally try and be fair with whoever asks the questions.
But to call yourself an air con engineer and have to ask those questions of R410A.
Makes me angry and I would dispute whether you should be playing with R410a.
Grizzly

[tichyt]

i am a beginner in this trade. i have done a lot of jobs in the past related to air conditioning, i am thinking of going into this profession. i havent done any f gas jobs. this is my first time.

this was my first real job, i have been working for someone in the past. now i dont get on with him.

it was my mistake from the start and for that im sorry. i like to get as much information as i can before i do something and i believe this place is the best for that.

please dont hold this against me. any help will be great for a learner.

finding a course to do is hard, most times they are too expensive and on other occasions there are not available. any information will be welcomed.

[monkey spanners]

... i havent done any f gas jobs. this is my first time.

Fitting or working on air con or refrigeration systems that contain HFC refrigerants such as R410A R407C etc and i believe HCFC such as R22 are now included, requires you to have been on an F gas training and assesment course, working on this equipment with out an F Gas card is illegal, and you and your customer risk prosecution.

Do a google search for F gas and see for yourself what the legal requirements are, there are many good trainers, some even post on this site, i strongly urge you to get yourself trained up, for your own and your customers benefit. Start as you mean to go on.

Jon

[Grizzly]

i am a beginner in this trade. i have done a lot of jobs in the past related to air conditioning, i am thinking of going into this profession. i havent done any f gas jobs. this is my first time.

this was my first real job, i have been working for someone in the past. now i don't get on with him.

it was my mistake from the start and for that I'm sorry. i like to get as much information as i can before i do something and i believe this place is the best for that.

please don't hold this against me. any help will be great for a learner.

finding a course to do is hard, most times they are too expensive and on other occasions there are not available. any information will be welcomed.

Now that is a much better approach.
There is already good advise from MS and Tazz.
To set yourself up could be a little hasty,
But good luck all the same.
The courses are indeed not cheap.
But they are still necessary because as you may of guessed our profession is becoming heavily regulated.
Whether anyone likes it or not.
Having paid lots of money to comply, most are going to DOB In anyone who is not eventually!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that's how it is!
Grizzly

[tichyt]

thankyou for any advice. i will be looking into air conditioning courses and f gas courses.

[Brian_UK]

Inn addition to the above comments...

If you are working for a Company doing these installs then both you and the Company are acting illegally.

HSE are in the process of monitoring F-Gas work and the penalties will be severe so watch your back.

The same applies is you are self employed of course.

[tichyt]

am i right in thinking. i can do all the install and when it comes to releasing the gas, i can call in the experts.

[monkey spanners]

If you read through this it states that any body doing installation work etc has to have an f gas card. Have a look at around the site there is a lot of good info. You also need a company registration, and quite possibly a premesis code too to trade.

http://www.acrib.org.uk/NNWWBU91053

Its like corgi/gas safe is for boilers etc.

[Brian_UK]

am i right in thinking. i can do all the install and when it comes to releasing the gas, i can call in the experts.

No, you are wrong, sorry.

The installation is the process of making a circuit and as such comes under the regulations.

Some similar questions asked here...

http://www.acrib.org.uk/web_images/d...20training.pdf

[coolstuf]

Hi Tichyt,

Sorry to say this, but a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. We were all there once. You have to try and do some courses on AC. You can do a proper C & G course on AC installations. It takes one week and you will learn the basics on gas, charging etc. Also buy some books and study on your own time. Sorry to harper on about Elles training, but they run a very good AC installers course. Difficult to try and explain basics over the internet. Sometimes a classroom is a good place to learn.

Good luck

[sumsor]

I have just completed a job, before I commission I want to know how to add refrigerant.

The longest run is 30m and the condenser is only charged for 20m.

My question is, when added extra refrigerant, do i add gas only or gas and liquid separately?

The refrigerant used is R410a and the units installed are Fujitsu. (refrigerant charge 50g/m)

Many thanks for any help.

Hi tichyt,

usually there's a part in the installation manual which explains the whole process and also shows you pictures on how to do it. There's also a manual with your gauges which explains how to use them.
I do agree with the advice given to you to sit your tickets, even if it's costly. A unit not properly installed and not working can cost you even more...

Good luck,

Sumsor

[frederik79]

Hi Tichyt,

Sorry to say this, but a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. We were all there once. You have to try and do some courses on AC. You can do a proper C & G course on AC installations. It takes one week and you will learn the basics on gas, charging etc. Also buy some books and study on your own time. Sorry to harper on about Elles training, but they run a very good AC installers course. Difficult to try and explain basics over the internet. Sometimes a classroom is a good place to learn.

Good luck

i agree

[tichyt]

thanks guys for your help. i know i started on the wrong foot, i wont be doing that again.

[mkattos70]

doing the f gas cources and understand the aircon then with experience you will get there my friend is not sometrhing difficult just take some time need to listen what experienced engineer say,
good luck

[malkiaizrod]

only liq.
with working compressor, easy via suction port.