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Thread: Compressor above condenser.
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15-06-2010, 01:43 PM #1
Compressor above condenser.
Dear all, placing condenser with liquid receiver below compressor (~5 meters below) cause that installation does not function? Could you give me theoretical background concernig that issue please?
Regards
Pawel
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15-06-2010, 11:30 PM #2
Re: Compressor above condenser.
What does not function in your set up?
Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
Retired March 2015
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16-06-2010, 03:49 AM #3
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Hi there,
Most probably you have a problem with liquid line which goes up 5m. You have to calculate the correct liquid line size and also required sub cooling so that a solid liquid line reaches the TEV.
CheersEven Einstein Asked Questions
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16-06-2010, 06:41 AM #4
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Thx for expl.
Brg Pawe.
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16-06-2010, 09:16 AM #5
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16-06-2010, 09:14 PM #6
Re: Compressor above condenser.
probably a low pressure problem on the LP inlet of the compressor..... i think?
Ice
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17-06-2010, 06:25 AM #7
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Hi Peter,
I am forced to apply such layout in one of my sites within a couple a weeks to come, but in the meantime I heard an opinion that such setup did not work at all (but without explanation why it did not and what was the main problem), in my opinion there is no threats in it, but just to be sure I also dropped post here to see opinion from you, opinions that I appreciate very much .
Regards
Pawel
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17-06-2010, 06:54 AM #8
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Possible accumulation of oil in receiver?
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17-06-2010, 07:00 AM #9
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Make sure your line going up is large enough in diameter and if you want to use EEV's on your evaporators, try to install a subcooler (PHE) after your receiver.
It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
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17-06-2010, 12:52 PM #10
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17-06-2010, 05:02 PM #11
Re: Compressor above condenser.
i am more thinking in the line of the compressor. problems whit the oil return. i don't think there was a refrig mensioned in this topic.
Ice
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17-06-2010, 06:42 PM #12
Re: Compressor above condenser.
It should work, If it is not working give the pressure reading of LP and HP?
RGDs
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17-06-2010, 11:47 PM #13
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Provided the line size is right, it should work ok. Oil return can be a problem in condensers lower than the compressor particularly if the ambient conditions are low and head pressure control is poor. It often turns turns to sludge and sits in it occupying condenser area. Then a young tech comes along - sees no oil in the compressor and promptly adds another litre or two which also ends up in the condenser and so on it goes.
Best plan is to probably think about an oil separator to take care of the oil issues, make sure the lquid line has a low enough pressure drop and it should work fine.
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18-06-2010, 07:34 AM #14
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18-06-2010, 07:59 AM #15
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18-06-2010, 08:03 AM #16
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Indeed, you will not face oil problems and surely not in the discharge and liquid lines. Liquid will fush out all the oil
It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
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18-06-2010, 09:58 AM #17
Re: Compressor above condenser.
In my opinion there is one problem of your system.
On summer ambient temperature may be high then room temperature where compressor situated. If compressor stop long time then its temperature may be smaller then condencer (and receiver). And refrigerant may migrate from receiver through condencer to head of compressor and condense there. When compressor start then may be hydraulic shock...In some places will have to think ...
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18-06-2010, 09:15 PM #18
Re: Compressor above condenser.
always safe to mount an oiltrap evry 3mtr.
Ice
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18-06-2010, 09:49 PM #19
Re: Compressor above condenser.
In upgoing liquid lines and flowing down discharge lines?
It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
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18-06-2010, 11:27 PM #20
Re: Compressor above condenser.
A non-return valve in the liquid line outlet from the condenser would not be a bad idea...
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19-06-2010, 05:57 AM #21
Re: Compressor above condenser.
in this case Peter, upgoing.
Ice
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19-06-2010, 06:47 AM #22
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Re: Compressor above condenser.
.........................
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19-06-2010, 10:45 PM #23
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20-06-2010, 10:12 AM #24
Re: Compressor above condenser.
An NRV will give you an additional DP in your liquid line and decrease overall system performance.
Why you need it anyhow? What is its benefit?It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
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21-06-2010, 06:42 AM #25
Re: Compressor above condenser.
When compressor stop, if temperature of condencer and receiver will bigger than compressor, than refrigerant in liquid phase will evaporate in condencer and condence near more cold compressor (migrate).
Hi
in this case machniery room always is at equal or a bit higher temperature than ambient, even in summer time.Last edited by Aik; 21-06-2010 at 06:46 AM.
In some places will have to think ...
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21-06-2010, 11:28 AM #26
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21-06-2010, 04:17 PM #27
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21-06-2010, 04:49 PM #28
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Re: Compressor above condenser.
I don't see any problem except that subcooling must be enough to compensate for 0,63 bar pressure drop due to liquid column of liquid refrigerant in 5 m pipe.
Oil is not of any concern if it is soluble with liquid refrigerant.
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22-06-2010, 06:31 AM #29
Re: Compressor above condenser.
In any case in Pawel_Wisnik's system oil trapes don't need on discharge line.
I don't see any problem except that subcooling must be enough to compensate for 0,63 bar pressure drop due to liquid column of liquid refrigerant in 5 m pipe.
Oil is not of any concern if it is soluble with liquid refrigerant.Last edited by Aik; 22-06-2010 at 06:39 AM.
In some places will have to think ...
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22-06-2010, 12:06 PM #30
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22-06-2010, 04:45 PM #31
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Re: Compressor above condenser.
................................
Deleted!
You are right, it is mistake.Last edited by nike123; 22-06-2010 at 07:42 PM.
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22-06-2010, 08:47 PM #32
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Why then the bottom weights less?
It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
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22-06-2010, 09:09 PM #33
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Re: Compressor above condenser.
I think you misunderstand my last post. Deleted is my comment (which is wrong) that everything is OK on that Suva picture, because i did not paying attention at what is bottom and what is up.
Than I confirmed that you are right.
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24-06-2010, 01:24 PM #34
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Hi
This is Gareth Jones
Most probably you have a problem with liquid line which goes up 5m. You have to calculate the correct liquid line size and also required sub cooling so that a solid liquid line reaches the TEV.
Regards,
Gareth
CNM ONLINE
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25-06-2010, 09:59 AM #35
Re: Compressor above condenser.
Hi
Most probably you have a problem with liquid line which goes up 5m. You have to calculate the correct liquid line size and also required sub cooling so that a solid liquid line reaches the TEV.
Regards,
Gareth
CNM ONLINE
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