Trane tracer Communications problems - Refrigeration-Engineer.com forums

Mike_w · #1 10-10-2009, 01:06 AM

Well I will do my best to explain the problem we seem to be experiencing. First off we have 3 Chillers on site, about 4 years ago from what I have heard they started to experience problems with communication with Unit 3 and Unit 1. They would reset the BCU by shutting off power and powering back on. Communications would stay on for about 4-6 and then drop out. Reading some of the work orders from Trane the BCU seemed to always have the diag. code F. I know they tried tons of things over the years as far as sending the DB out to tech support. swapping cards and upgrading the firmware. From what I have been told Unit 2 seems to be the best one.

As far as i understand the Communication link goes from the BCU to the PCM (ICS) then to the two chiller control panels(I forget what they call them).
I am now putting an effort forward to try to identify the problem and am turning the experts lol

I know Unit was the one that they were not able to communicate with at all for a long time so i started there today. I Swaped the COMM5 card and the ENET/BACNET interface card with Unit 2. Went to Unit 1 and Tried to swap the standard capacity card and the high capacity card with unit 2. When i did so I found out that Unit 1's high capacity card does not work so I put it back in unit one and will try to replace it when I get one.

Some things I noticed.
Today when I went to Unit 3 to start some testing the Diag. Code was 8 and that cleared when I cycled the BCU. On the UPCM the ICS LED indications ST1 TX and RX If I recall I remember seeing the ST1 LED have like one pulse then like a half pulse(a weak short pulse) then cylce over again with no RX or anything

all 3 chillers are suppose to be controlled by the tracer summit program in a control room if we had comm.... I know I have been jumping all over the place in this thread I hope someone can understand it

BCU is a BMTW000AA0A14440A87000
pcm IS A BTWU000AAA54542100000200

Some Images at
hxxp://s901,photobucket,com/albums/ac217/hoststuff/

Magoo · #2 10-10-2009, 01:24 AM

Hi Mike W
I am not familar with your system, but sounds like a noise ( electrical ) problem. Common grounding/bonding with multiple systems is a real problem, analogue inputs, C/T inputs, digital inputs, contactors and snubbers, regulated power supplys are all just a start.
First to try is fitting and monitoring a power anyliser and plot power fluctuations, these days you can rent them, basically an oscyliscope with data trend logging.
Hoe this helps.
magoo

Lowrider · #3 10-10-2009, 08:36 AM

F means failure during normal operation, 8 means unit in reset.

Can you tell me what comm boards are in the BCU? What type of chillers?

Do you know what image file is in the BCU?

Is the BCU communicating with an other BMS through BACnet/IP?

goshen · #4 10-10-2009, 05:50 PM

Hi why dont u make a schematic of how your system is connected and post it then i think things will be a little easier to relate!

Mike_w · #5 13-10-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magoo

Hi Mike W
I am not familar with your system, but sounds like a noise ( electrical ) problem. Common grounding/bonding with multiple systems is a real problem, analogue inputs, C/T inputs, digital inputs, contactors and snubbers, regulated power supplys are all just a start.
First to try is fitting and monitoring a power anyliser and plot power fluctuations, these days you can rent them, basically an oscyliscope with data trend logging.
Hoe this helps.
magoo

I was on the exact same path your going with this becuase the Comm wires that communicate with two chiller control units are in the same cable tray as the 4160V for the motors but the only thing that threw me off was that it was fine for 4 years prior. And we "HAD" a nice portable scope meter but it was damaged either by transcat or UPS....... cause i guess we have another problem with the unit alarming of Phase inbalance i think it is. When it see a current differential of more then 5% that i wanted to look into with the scope meter.....

[quote=goshen]Hi why dont u make a schematic of how your system is connected and post it then i think things will be a little easier to relate![\quote]

I sure can when i get back to work but when you say connected do you mean communications wise? or power? or what? I did post a Image of the Comm print

Ill have to get back to you on the Comm card specs i dont know off the top of my head

And yes it uses BACNET

Lowrider · #6 15-10-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Ill have to get back to you on the Comm card specs i dont know off the top of my head

And yes it uses BACNET

If it uses BACnet to an other vendor than Trane, please let me what image file is in the bcu and what vendor it's communicating with!

Have you had anyone from Trane over?

Had a look at the pictures. The Units have the UCP2 modules, so they communicate with the BCU through Comm3 (Trane Protocol).

The BCU only contains an Arcnet/ethernet card, a standard and high capacity card, a BCU I/o card and the comm 3 card.

Mike_w · #7 17-10-2009, 01:28 AM

There is no other vendor involved as far as i know the 3 units communicate with a trane tracer HMI program, And as far as pulling the image off the BCU I am not 100% sure I understand how to do that

Magoo · #8 17-10-2009, 01:38 AM

Mike W
I am thinking that the current C/T's are a prime source of funny trips, particually if comms cables are trunked with high voltage motor cables, separate them if you can and ground them at the source only. Next change the current monitoring C/T's and replace with same ratio items and double check they are balanced.
hope this helps.

Lowrider · #9 17-10-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_w

There is no other vendor involved as far as i know the 3 units communicate with a trane tracer HMI program, And as far as pulling the image off the BCU I am not 100% sure I understand how to do that

Go to Setup, site configuration, OK. Then you can see what version software is in it!

Mike_w · #10 07-11-2009, 06:30 PM

Ok now to continue the troubleshoot process, I have been swamped with other things in the plant.
But the Image version is 16.086

Going

Mike_w · #11 07-11-2009, 06:45 PM

Ok back to the troubleshooting process, I have been swamped with other issues at the plant.

But the Image version is 16.086
Its a comm 4 card if you need the serial number or something else let me know

And going over the MANY trane work orders it appears they first said we had 300:5 and that we needed to go to 250:5
Then a month later they came out and said that our CTs are hooked up to the 250:5 tap and they need to be on the 200:5

Lowrider · #12 07-11-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_w

And going over the MANY trane work orders it appears they first said we had 300:5 and that we needed to go to 250:5
Then a month later they came out and said that our CTs are hooked up to the 250:5 tap and they need to be on the 200:5

Can you give me the model numbers, serial numbers of the chillers and compressors? Then I can see what are suppoused to be in!