Insulation for Cold Room

[tjk2007]

Hi to All,

I am looking for a suggestion.

A Fruits & Veg. cold Room (@4ºC) to be installed with PUF panel without floor Insulation. I suggest my senior to provide floor insulation. But his answer is Floor insulation is only provided to the room below 0ºC.

When I installed cold room for Dairy plants @4ºC I put floor insulation (EPS 100 mm thk) before Finished Floor level concreting.

Any could suggest me the correct solution.

Regards,
TJK

[Vucko Antarktik]

Hello
Booth of you are OK solution.
Yours is better but possible solution is without isolation but with thermal break inside-outside.

[smpsmp45]

We provide floor insulation for such rooms here in India. it is better to have that insulation definitely.

You can refer to Ashrae R value shart whrein the insulation is needed as per that

[tjk2007]

We provide floor insulation for such rooms here in India. it is better to have that insulation definitely.

You can refer to Ashrae R value shart whrein the insulation is needed as per that

Can you pls mail me Ashrae R value shart

[John Hunter]

Ideally the floor should have a vapour membrane and then insulation below a wear slab of concrete, but commercial chillers often have no insulation but all should have vapour membrane.If the contract can afford it for -4 to +4 C the minimium insulation sould be 50 mm (2") of HDP= vapour membrane with suitable wear surface. If Hoists are to traverse the minimum wear surface should be 100 mm RIF concrete .

[janubas]

why such silly questions.?

[Samarjit Sen]

Hello tjk2007,

Any Cold Room project, should have a floor insulation. One should know that why is the insulation being applied for the walls and ceiling. It is to reduce the heat load. Similarly in the case of floors the same also applies. Since it is a +4oC, I would advice that a puf insualtion of 50 mm be applied on the floor with a vapor barrier.

[old gas bottle]

all well and good and i too will fit it every time if possible,but if the floor used is allready laid down and you want the floor level to stay the same as the outside area for fork lifts,pallet trucks etc then it cant be done without digging up the floor unless you use a ramp ,so it has to be fitted into the new build ,thats why theres lots without it.

[Samarjit Sen]

Hi old gas bottle,

You have said the right thing. But the floor insulation is a must, unless the application is for air condiioning.

[old gas bottle]

not so much over here buddy, no one can argue the rights or wrongs its obviousley benificiel ,but in most cases i come accross companys aquire a building then install a chiller direct onto the building floor, i have installed dozens with no problems and this is industry standard over here above freezing all though i think this will change soon as new builds will be given a energy rating.

[samiam]

For Coldrooms, operating at 0C, I do not use floor insulation. If it on a mezzanine, and condireing the conditions belwo, then I add the floor insulation (most often than not).

Do a heat load calculation to see the benefot of adding insulation. (or calculate if condensatin will occur)

[tjk2007]

Hi all,

Thank you for your suggestions.

Please pursue if any more information in this head line

TJK

[ibraheem]

Hi all,

just let me add my own comment, I alway insulate the floor wherever the location of cold room,but the thickness and insulation material consideration is observed , normal refrigeration practise required insulated floor when we have industrial big refrigeration floor need to be insulated before concrete while in commercial cold room the insulated panel applied with various thickness under different circumstance.

[smpsmp45]

We have seen that many companies from Europe do not provide the floor insulation. I think the main reason is the low ambient temperature in Europe. In India, Few floriculture projects done by European companies had no floor insulation ( +2 Deg C), But we do provide that. As per Ashrae, it has to be provided for Indian design Conditions of 40 Ambient

[iyengar26]

Hi, I am a food technologist. I need to design a cold room for a dairy with existing compressors available. Can any one help me do so .

[azaffr]

Hi, I am a food technologist. I need to design a cold room for a dairy with existing compressors available. Can any one help me do so .

Hi Iyengar, We are manufacturers of Polyurethane Insulated panels and done many a projects in GCC from the smallest to largest sizes of cold rooms.

We also supply a lot of panels in African regions. Please feel free to contact me on zafar@alfuratgroup.net for further informations.

[azaffr]

Dear all,

Al Furat is the largest manufacturer with best quality Polyurethane insulated panels in UAE. Supplying panels and commissioning major projects all over UAE/GCC/AFRICAN COUNTRIES. We also specialize in Transport vehicles from vans to containers.

Please do contact zafar@alfuratgroup.net for further queries.

[azaffr]

Iyengar, if you are a fuit technologist, we also have many solutions of ozone treatments for vaious food/beverages products. In short, Ozone will increase the shelve life of food products.

Contact me for further details.

[azaffr]

by the way, in the ambient temperatures like Gulf countries, we use floor insulations as a must.

Two different types i.e. small sized where trolleys/fork lifts do not enter and the other type which is below the concrete flooring to enable entries of trolleys/forklifts.

[steve thailand]

hi, this is an interesting thread for me.

i am building a microbrewery in Thailand. the factory cold room is 64m2 and will be chilled to 18 degreesC.

i am planning ceiling and wall insulation but not sure what to do about the floor. it will be poured concrete slab on the ground. its usually about 28-35degrees here.

is it worth insulating the floor and what would be a good cheap system to use? we need to wash the floor frequently and will have a small fork lift for moving the fermenting tanks around.

thanks, steve

[Peter_1]

The ground is colder, then your cold room temperature, so don't isolate it anyhow.

[steve thailand]

The ground is colder, then your cold room temperature, so don't isolate it anyhow.

the ground is very hot, even in the shade but under a concrete floor, maybe its cooler. i guess dry dirty acts like an insulator anyhow so i'll leave it uninsulated.

for the walls, i plant to use autoclave aerated concrete blocks, a.k.a. superblock, which is a pretty good insulator. but i want to add foam and foil insulation on the inside then cover that with polycarbonate (clear plastic) sheets which are easy to clean.

do you think i should attach the insulation and polycarbonate sheets directly to the superblock walls or build a stud wall to allow an air gap between wall and insulation?

thx steve

[Peter_1]

The ground under your building is not shined by the sun and you have to take in account the temperature at 1 m depth.
Why not immediately install steel/PU panels? They act as walls and as isolation at once. And it will be cheaper. Your blocks aren't such a good isolator at all if they're used for cold rooms: 6 cm PU has the same U value as +/- 24 cm of your blocks.

[Peter_1]

Your space will be 64 m², so +/- 8 x 8.
If you use also PU panels for the ceiling (self supporting till +/- 6 m), then in 2 days with 2 men, your brewery will be installed.
If you use the blocks for the wall, what will you use then for the ceiling?

[steve thailand]

thanks for that, looks like a far better and faster way to build

[steve thailand]

i just ordered my PU panel system from china, 100mm thick, $20.5/m2, great price. its cam locking so i think i can build a 16x4.5x4m high cold room in a couple of days. thanks for the great idea in that.

i am also buying 2 industrial chiller units to provide cool water to my fermentation tank cooling jackets. the tanks are 3000L and have their own 75mm think insulation. 3000L of beer has a lot of thermal inertia i think so i was wondering, is it more efficient to run the chillers only at night when the temp drops to about 20 degrees? day time temp is usually about 32-35.

thanks