New Training Course

[frank]

While I was in the local electrical wholesalers today I had a read of Professional Electrician and came across this little gem

Ellis training has designed and launced a new qualification in response to the increasing demand for split air conditioning systems in offices, factory units and at home.
City & Guilds 2081 Split Air conditioning, Installation and Commissioning is a 5 day course which caters for anyone who wants to install and commission air conditioning systems safely, efficiently, legally and with due regard for the environment.
Candidates will be trained and continually assessed in skills such as the planning of an installation, the safe connection of the electricity supply and testing of the installed system.
John Ellis said: 'Non specialists are the majority in this industry and this course comes in response to a considerable demand for an air conditioning course of this kind...People will argue that you can't train an electrician or plumber in 5 days, but we argue that a five day course is better than no course at all.'

http://www.ellistraining.com/2081.htm

Seems like I wasted 8 years at college when I could have done it in 5 days

[p_p]

Hi Frank.

Couldn't agree more, the people attending these courses are probably the ones competing against and undercutting professional companies like ourselves.
Its ok installing the kit, but what happens when it doesn't work?
As the saying goes there will never be a substitute for experience.
How very true.

[ronaldo9]

hey guys,

Just to say that whatever your opinion about plumbers and electricians trying to do our jobs John Ellis is an excellent instructor. Im just completing the technical certificate with Ellis training and both myself and my employer are delighted with the training.

[Pooh]

At the end of the day if people are willing to pay for courses like this somebody will supply them, at some point in the future somebody will get badly hurt or worse still killed and then the preverbial will hit the fan. Beleive it or not anybody can design a course and register it with City & Guilds. I do not know how the course is accepted by Summit Skills the lead body for refrigeration and AC in the UK. Also will the qualification be accepted by Europe.
I thought the idea was to improve the training and quality of engineers not dumm it down so anybody can say they are an air conditioning engineer.

Ian

[frank]

hey guys,

Just to say that whatever your opinion about plumbers and electricians trying to do our jobs John Ellis is an excellent instructor. Im just completing the technical certificate with Ellis training and both myself and my employer are delighted with the training.

Hi Ronaldo9

I do not know of Elliis Training and would not for a moment pass judgement on whether or not they were qualified to train people. I'm quite sure that they are a reputable orgainsation and very able to teach.

My problem is with the course they are now promoting - 5 DAYS to cover everything that normally takes at least a minimum couple of years - and you end up with a C&G certificate.

Surely, this is not good for our trade? No doubt someone will prove me wrong.

[Brian_UK]

Now THAT really is taking the P*SS

[rant NOT over]

[eggs]

Come on guys, where is the difficult bit?
All your/we're doing is connecting a couple of fans together with bits of copper pipe and a few strips of wire. Or am i missing something? The course is for installing splits, be real. How much training does it need?
You would need to be extra thick to need any more than five days training.
"if you can sh!t, you can fit a split"
Can any body tell me what would take a skilled plumber or electrican any loger than this?

eggs

[frank]

Can any body tell me what would take a skilled plumber or electrican any loger than this?

eggs

I've met many good skilled electricians, and some that can't read wiring diagrams
"look mate - I'll just put the isolator there and you can take it from there - OK?"

And there are some plumbers who can pipe strangle real good - but can't do electrics.

If it says C&G 2081 on the back of your skill card then most site agents or customers are going to think you are time served.

Is anyone doing a 5 day 'Electricians Training Course' with C&G certification?

[Abe]

I've met many good skilled electricians, and some that can't read wiring diagrams
"look mate - I'll just put the isolator there and you can take it from there - OK?"

And there are some plumbers who can pipe strangle real good - but can't do electrics.

If it says C&G 2081 on the back of your skill card then most site agents or customers are going to think you are time served.

Is anyone doing a 5 day 'Electricians Training Course' with C&G certification?

I find it incomprehensible how a reputable examining / certification body like C& G can get involved certifying a 5 day course.

All it means now is that the word C&G is now worthless.
Are C& G willing to defend this?

It used to take years to acquire this qualification in the past. Not any more it seems

[Pooh]

Guys
you are missing the point, if you look on the inside of any Cornflake packet you will find a free C&G certificate, just fill in what you want to be qualified as and away you go.

I think I am going to set up a course with C&G a one day brain surgery course, lets see how that is accepted.

The comment that some training for these people is better than none should be, unless you have full training you cant legally touch it. Can I do a 5 day course on fitting gas boilers, I DONT THINK SO.

Ian

[flash]

I work for an electrical contractor. my role is to set up an a/c department, the company wants to train from within so we have used these and other type of courses. Although they are very very good and teach 'sparks' to install spits once they break down or dont start up in the first place the guys are stuck even on what we would consider basic's. What I am trying to say is these courses show them how to install not teach. If that makes sense

[p_p]

Hi Flash.

I think you've just hit the nail on the head, its what I partly said in my last post.
Companies/people should dedicate to there own trades & not try & diversify, otherwise you end up with a jack of all trades thats only trained & experienced in one.

Regards PP

[frank]

Although they are very very good and teach 'sparks' to install splits, once they break down or dont start up in the first place the guys are stuck even on what we would consider basic's. What I am trying to say is these courses show them how to install not teach. If that makes sense

So who honours the first years warranty then? which, as I'm sure Abe will testify, is mandatory under the Sale of Goods Act

[simond1972]

hi i am new on here and would like to retrain to get into the industry would this be of any help to me this course

[Brian_UK]

^ Just read above comments

[Greengrocer]

John Ellis is a past president of the IOR and my old lecturer at Willesden college way back ('72-76). His credentials and ability are not in question. However, I do have an issue with any course that purports to certify anyone to any sort of recognised standard in 5 days. The fact that it's C&G recognised is worrying.
We just had one of our engineers (10 years experience) do a 2079 course with Ellis training & he reckoned it was tough. Took him 5 days to do the refresher and exam - cost circa £1k + time off the road.
How much are they charging for the split course - let me guess £400 - £600max and I bet it only covers the basics for pre-charged outdoor units / systems. Sounds to me like it's a market driven split bashers course. When the systems they install go pop when the power's switched on or it throws up a fault code the guys will be in trouble & will probably be posting on this site for help......
It would be nice for our guys to go on a 5 day electrical or Gas course and be "authorised" to start playing around with sub mains in the street or the gas towers down at the Oval!! Somehow I don't think that will ever happen.
What I would really like to see is for one of these so called "trained" guys to accidentally let go a gas charge and get caught doing it. What's the fine these days for letting gas go deliberately or without proper due care and attention? I thought it was a max £10,000 fine.

To be honest you can have rules & regs comming out of your ears but in the current market clients only want the cheapest price and this is one way of acheiving exactly that. As I said earlier it's all market driven.

[pipeman]

Hi Flash.

I think you've just hit the nail on the head, its what I partly said in my last post.
Companies/people should dedicate to there own trades & not try & diversify, otherwise you end up with a jack of all trades thats only trained & experienced in one.

Regards PP

I'm new to the forum so don't jump on me for saying this.

I dont really agree with being a jack of all etc. I'm a fully qualified, C&G level 3 plumber, Gas Safe etc. Been working in the commercial industry for 7 years now. I've worked in all areas of hvac and can say from experience it is possible to do all.

My old man is a ducter and i've been doing that since I can remember. From experience I know that not many plumbers or ac engineers can even manage to duct a ductable unit. I on the other hand can easily install an NHS spec AHU, ducting and pipework without breaking a sweat.

As regards to AC/Fridge i'm learning, and at 25 years old I would say by the time i'm 30 i'll be pretty good at it. I'm still young and willing to learn hence me being on this forum.

I'm no maintenance engineer at the moment but have had loads of experience installing and commissioning splits, and vrv/vrfs.

I'm not trying to big my self up, so please don't take it that way. I'm here for advice and inside knowledge (something college doesnt really teach). All I wanted to get at is that it is possible to do all and sometimes benificial, as one pair of men doing a job as apposed to two or three different trades is what a lot of clients want.