New glycol chiller

[fireandice]

Hi guys, I am new here and have loads of questions but I will try and start slowly. A company I contract to is looking at replacing 2 175 Kw glycol chillers with a single 350 Kw chiller. Glycol leaving temp is -2.5 degree c. What would be the best and most efficient refrigerant if R717 was not an option.
Thanks

[DVaider]

Hi guys, I am new here and have loads of questions but I will try and start slowly. A company I contract to is looking at replacing 2 175 Kw glycol chillers with a single 350 Kw chiller. Glycol leaving temp is -2.5 degree c. What would be the best and most efficient refrigerant if R717 was not an option.
Thanks

R22 the next one. There are many chillers (I know Chineese) that operates on this refrigerant (Q0=350kW or more): TICA,Midea e.t.c

[fireandice]

Yeah, sorry I should have stated that in New Zealand 2010 is the end for R22 which is a shame but thats life. The old units are on R22 and I was hoping there is something better than 407c. Anyone work on a 410a chiller? The only new chiller they have is on 404a which I heard is going to be stopped like in Europe.

[DVaider]

Yeah, sorry I should have stated that in New Zealand 2010 is the end for R22 which is a shame but thats life. The old units are on R22 and I was hoping there is something better than 407c. Anyone work on a 410a chiller? The only new chiller they have is on 404a which I heard is going to be stopped like in Europe.

OK,I forgot about 2010 problem The next one I may suggest is R134a. It's better than R407C in your case (temperature level is lower than 0 deg. C). R134a is better in maintanance ('cause it's not a zeotrope mixture). I didn't ever meet chillers on R410A. R410A is good refrigerant, but it is mixture like R407C and it have big values of pressure on operation level. It uses in AC (split,VRF).

[DVaider]

Sorry, I just find an information about new Daikin air-cooled chiller on R410A. Their max. Q0 is about 260 kW.

[fireandice]

Hopefully someone will make a bigger one, we are using water cooled condensers and want to find the most efficient type weather it be recip or screw, Co2 or whatever. I know we cant use ammonia on site and i presume the lpg ones would be out too.
Thanks

[DVaider]

Hopefully someone will make a bigger one, we are using water cooled condensers and want to find the most efficient type weather it be recip or screw, Co2 or whatever. I know we cant use ammonia on site and i presume the lpg ones would be out too.
Thanks

Mmmmmmm

OK. I know good Daikin chiller with water cooled condenser. Their COP is about 5.7 (on AC temperature level). My opinion is that R134a is the best for chillers.

[Eeram]

Go for the Daikin Chillers which runs on R-407C. Go to any Daikin website

[fireandice]

R407c efficiency drops off too much at low temps. I want to replace the chillers with better efficiency than R22. Thanks

[Lowrider]

Just go for the better units! Buy Trane! Forget about Daikin chillers!

[TXiceman]

Go with R-134a or R-507 and forget the blends (400 series).

York, Carrier and Trane all make screw chillers in this range. If this does not work, contact some of the local custom packagers and it will not be a problem for them, but it will cost a bit more.

ken

[fireandice]

We had a quote from York for a screw on R407c but looking through the specifications for it R22 uses less current with more output. I presume R134a would require bigger compressors meaning higher initial cost for the same Kw output. Is R507 a long term refrigerant? We will probably get one made locally because we want to have heat recovery on the discharge to preheat water for the boiler. Energy consumption is a high priority.

[Lowrider]

`Take a look at www.trane.com and look for RTWB or RTHD. Then no need to make one yourself, we just make them!

In Holland we install a lot of these to provide heat in winter and cooling in summer, but dependend on what you build around them you can recover the heat!

[wkd]

Go to the main manufacturers like Trane,Carrier and York (Johnson Controls) they all make a selection of chillers on R134A and R410 including heat recovery and de-superheaters.RC group have some very inventive chiller design if you have a distributor in NZ.

Personally for your conditions I would go R134A,yes you do need larger compressors etc but the market place is very competitive so you shouldn't be forced to parting with more cash than you have to.

[1torr]

Try Climavenita, with the Turbocor oil free compressor,magnetic bearings,R134a,flooded evaperator.

[hiitsme]

carrier RB series (starfire) work on 410a they are scroll, silent...,
XA series (aquaforce) work on 134a, low speed screw
I don't think that they are the cheapest on the market... but the other parameters are quite good.
IMHO 407c is not the best option as you can have a leakage and you must replace the full charge.

[mac word]

Yeah, sorry I should have stated that in New Zealand 2010 is the end for R22 which is a shame but thats life. The old units are on R22 and I was hoping there is something better than 407c. Anyone work on a 410a chiller? The only new chiller they have is on 404a which I heard is going to be stopped like in Europe.

I have built some R-410 chillers, they work great. But I am really not crazy about the refrigerant. I have been looking into Hydrocarben Refrigerants. There are some good alternates. We make evaporative condensers and can build up chiller packages search thermalflow.
mw

[TXiceman]

R410 is a fairly high pressure refrigerant and requires specialty components. A couple of years ago, there was limited high side components and controls as compressors designed for 450 or 500 PSIG.

If you are only going to about 10dF on your chiller, my choice is semi-hermetic screws and R-134a. My next choice is R507 which is a true azetropic refrigerant, no separation of components and no glide.

My best advice is to avoid the 400 series blends as much as possible. The refrigerant suppliers have go to come up with a better substitute for R-22 than the current crop of blends. All of the fellows that work only on the smaller units and younger fellows don't know about the alternate refrigerants are dedicated to the 400 series since that is all they know. But there are much better choices out there.

You always have the choice of going with a custom designed open drive compressor, explosion proof and propane (R-290).

Ken

[francois.otis]

you should thonk about r-134a to depends on what type you need centrifugal or piston one check whith your carrier representative for the vfd model cost less in energy

[Peter_1]

I think fireadnice has now more questions and doubts then before.

[Jacek]

Hi guys, I am new here and have loads of questions but I will try and start slowly. A company I contract to is looking at replacing 2 175 Kw glycol chillers with a single 350 Kw chiller. Glycol leaving temp is -2.5 degree c. What would be the best and most efficient refrigerant if R717 was not an option.
Thanks

Hi fireandice,

Try YLAE York chiller (YLAE-HP heat pump) or 30RB chiller (30RQ heat pump). They both are charged with high-efficiency R410A refrigerant. Both chillers are of scroll and air-cooled type. York manufacture also water-cooled chiller with R410A. It is the new one and called YCWL.

Best regards,

Jacek

P. S.
Carrier's 30RB has a freecooling option (Carrier's new patent).