Hoshizaki Ice Maker

[Abe]

Would a member know of a good source for this machine. I have a requirement for one. I know Fosters used to sell them some years back.

[herefishy]

Aiyub.
Hoshizaki's are prolific in the US market. They are the biggest energy and water "sucking" machines on the market.... the factory does not deburr the steel (we mean blood on the tech)... anf if the water pressure drops below 40 psi (water filter issue) they won't operate....


Their entire marketing strategy is flawed regarding "fewer cycles". You know, in an ice maker, the compressor never shuts off... unless the bin is full... so who cares?

www.hoshizaki.com exists.... I'm sure the factory or any rep can provide you with a supplier. If you really want to go that route, I can hep you.... but it really is a BAD product (in my humble opinion). even the stainless steel that they advertise is "400" grade, and actually will rust !!!!! LOL!

The Fish.

[Abe]

Hello Mark,

Thanks for the info. I got in touch with Hoshizaki yesterday and spoke to a sales rep

I would be interested to know if I should go along with the Hozhi or try and swing my customer round to the Porkka. Remember, if the Hoshi goes wrong I am the one who is going to repair it.

Anything to either persuade me or dissuade me will be helpful

Thanks

pss.........Where have you been all this time??

Abe

[herefishy]

Hi Aiyub,

I hve been working my butt off. My front desk quit, and I have been busy with the supermarket projects and the semi-conductor burn-in chamber water chiller installation, and I had record sales in October.

Anyway, yes, the hoshizaki has a bigger compressor. Hoshi advertises "fewer cycles, so less wear and tear on parts", (which by the way the only part that does less cycling is the harvest solenoid valve, and during how many blue moons do you ever address a harvest valve failure?), is they employ a huge evaporator that makes a bunch of cubes at once.

The start-up load of that evaporator, with all that surface area and the beginning water temperature requires a real monster of a compressor compared to that of the typical current design. One ice making cycle takes about 45 minutes.

Yes, the cabinets are huge, not only to accommodate the evaporator, but the condenser coil is proportionally sizable.

Most common problems with the Hoshi's relate to the water supply and circuit. because such a large batch is made at once, you've got to have some serious water flow to the sucker. What is your average water pressure in you parts? Hoshi recommends a 1/2" water supply to all their machines. It is a "batch fill", for which the water trough must fill during the defrost cycle.

Do y'all have high mineral content in your water? The water distributors are a complicated array, and very susceptible to failure in high TDS water conditions. Cleaning the machines is a real money-maker for the servicer.

Aside from the cost of the machine, you'd better check on water filtration requirements, and that cost for the customer for what he's going to invest in filtration and filter replacements. Just the initial cost of a filter array capable of providing the required water flow rate will put him back (plus there'd better be enough wall space to hang it on. LOL!! ).

The ice deflector that sits upon the top of the water reservoir, underneath the evaporator(s) is a thin cheap plastic, that ALWAYS ends up getting its little plastic slats broken apart by the falling ice, which then go into the water sump and the water pump. If the plastic bits make it past the pump (usually after cracking the plastic pump housing causing $300.00 (US) damage, ouch!) the bits get caught in the water dump check valve causing the service call for "NO ICE"!

One thing peculiar about the Hoshi, is that Harvest is primarily acheived by flowing the entering fill water (incoming water temperature) between the evaporator plates to warm the plates up to release the ice. You see the evaporator surface area is so large, that just hot gas won't do it adequately. When the water filters still have three months of useful life in them if serving some (other) machine, but the water flow rate has decreased below the requirement of the Hoshi, The result is the formation of an "iceberg" in the evaporators because harvest cannot be acheived without proper water supply!!!

I have an employee (technician) that always remarks, when he gets a cut on his body, that he got "Hoshizaki'd". He always comes back from a Hoshi service call with cuts on his hands.

Hoshizaki's evaporators are stainless steel, but the copper that is attached to the back of the plates is coated in nickel or tin or something. This plating flakes off, and you will always see the bottom of the sump covered with piles of the stuff. I have seen the debris plugging up the water distributors on occasion. this manifestation is rare (the pluggin up of the distributors), but all the hoshi's that have been in service have the piles of flakes in the sump.

Are you familiar with the ARI website? ARI is an organization which tests machines and rates and compares different machines according to efficiencey. I'll try and find that info for you (it's on the web), I've research it before, and the figures will blow you out of the water! it's a real HOG!

http://www.ari.org/directories/acim/

This .pdf document gives all the efficiencies of competetive machines for energy and water consumption. Check it out!

see ya'

[Dan]

Wow, Herefishy. I am forwarding your last missive to my service guys. I always thought that the Hoshi's were the best.

I will let you know the response from them.

[herefishy]

Dan,
Aside from the service guys... did you check the ARI analysis? That is where you will really determine the (dis?)-service to your customer.....

Get back to me, I'm interested in your response.

Hey!!! Just to be fair, maybe Abe would like to hear your "Pros" for the Hoshi, considering I'm such a grumpy old man about it ... LOL!!!!

[Dan]

For starters, what is appealing about Hoshi cubers is the stainless steel evaporators and housings. Even a low grade of stainless beats the heck out of nickel plated steel. Also, the simplicity of harvesting the ice. Fewer drive devices, microswitches, etc, when compared to Manitowac, Iceomatic, Scott, etc.

I will get back with observations from my technicians.

[herefishy]

Dan, the other manufactueres use nickle or tin plated COPPER for an evaporator, not steel.

Steel has inferior thermal conductivity properties, compared to copper.

[Abe]

I bought the Hozhi IM 130 ME , its installed and running
So far so good..............
A mountain of square rectangles all bundled together and stuck in a heap, everytime I open the bin

[herefishy]

Well Abe, your little remark about the square cubes really got me going !!!

I went through All my literature...... and the web...... The primary target in the US seems to be towards the KM series line. I cannot find any US company, or even the Hoshizaki US website advertising the IM line at all. I think perhaps being trademarks in the US Patent Office, perhaps

The IM-230/650 looks like a Kold-Draft. I'm not certain what process is employed in (your) IM series, however I assure you that we are not talking about the same creature, being that I reference the KM series of "crescent" cube maker.

http://www.ultraservices.co.uk/sales...ails.asp?id=63

http://www.axon-enterprises.co.uk/co.../hoshizaki.htm

I did you a dis-service by not investigating the actual product that you were referring to. I have learned something...... and the difference between the markets across international lines is becoming evident..... I must retract any previous statement that I made regarding your particular situation...


see ya'

[angryk]

Hoshizaki. I don't know what's more fun, taking half the machine apart to properly clean the condenser or cleaning the evaporator plate, especially when the top of the machine is a foot from the ceiling.

[condenseddave]

I don't mind the foot from the ceiling thing on their cubers, as much as I do on their flakers.

Try to extract a stuck auger with no headroom!

We have around six FMs that are in low clearance apps. I have a recip saw, and I'm not afraid to use it.

[terrygoodrich]

Just a note about the harvest problems with Hoshi... I am from Northern NY where municipal water approaches 32 degrees in the winter when ice forms inside the water towers. According to the Hoshizaki service manual the incoming water must be between 45 and 90F. Cold incoming water sometimes results in an incomplete harvest and the Iceberg someone described earlier. With regard to the metal... Manitowoc uses a cupro-nickel alloy, not a plated evaporator. The metal cannot flake off like the older models. The reduced thermal conductivity of the stainless steel evaporator is compensated by the thickness of the material. Saturated suction pressures are comparable in the different machines.

[Blueboy]

Would a member know of a good source for this machine. I have a requirement for one. I know Fosters used to sell them some years back.

I had a job with a company up until around 2 years ago that looked after a large independent pub company in the UK. It's the one that does cheaper beer than any one else and curry club on Tuesdays or Thursday. They have around 700 outlets. The comapany I worked for serviced and maintained nearly all of them. Each one had a Hoshizaki Ice Maker in four years of working for this company I only know of one compressor being changed, yes thats right one in 4 years on 700 machines. Now admittedly some models needed regular cleaning, but they where the older models. Generally I found these icemakers to be very succesfull in the Uk and the back up and support from Hoshizaki I found to second to none. It's worth mentioning that the same company used a Porka walkin fridges and freezers in every single outlet and Gram and Foster fridges in there kitchens so it's fair to say they had exposure to many other companys Icemakers

[Blueboy]

OPPPS HERES THE DETAILS YOU ASKED FOR

Hoshizaki uk
6 Alders Court
Welwyn Garden City
United Kingdom
AL7 1LT
Tel: 01707 338585
Fax: 01707322315
Email: les@hoshizakiuk.co.uk
Web: http://WWW.HOSHIZAKI.COM

[mcamacho]

Hi!

My choice on cube ice machines (industrial) is Vogt. Check:

www.vogtice.com

-Manuel.

[dan wong]

For what ever this is worth. I have been in this business twenty four years. I have seviced just about all brand IM ever make. Every machine have their advantage & disadvantage . In my opinion, the Hoshizaki is still the OVER ALL BEST.

[Ice Machine BOI]

I would get an Ice machine from Bag of Ice I have never had not 1 issue and they are the easiest machine ever to use.

[Ice Machine BOI]

I have also had many clients switch from Hoshizaki and I only buy american made which hoshizaki is not

[Magoo]

Original post was wayback in 2002, hopefully resolved by know.
Like 8 years people, check the post date.