410 and 22

[Greg W]

Any one mixed these two gases in a system , if so what did you find?

[Brian_UK]

It still works but the head pressure goes loopy.

Found a system where someone had topped up with 410 when it should have been 22.

Not recommended.

[unloadedinher]

Hi there,
you need to find out what refrigerant the system is running on, if the access ports are for normal 1/4" gauge lines then it is likely to be R22/R407c. R410a gauge connections are 5/16". Check the system for refrigerant details, or the compressor.
You cannot mix R22,R407c and R410a, 410a has a higher working pressure, suction of aprox 180psi, discharge approx 350 psi.

Let me know if this is any good for you.

Cheers Les

[fujinama]

Once mixed, the mixture can't be separated, so it can't be recycled, and the mixture will have to be destroyed.

[The MG Pony]

will a 410 F/D work with R-22? Don't see any problems but I'd rather duble check! thanks.

[Brian_UK]

Sorry MG, what's an F/D ?

[The MG Pony]

Filter/Dryer short hand for it, saves typing when talking about that part of the system lol.

[Brian_UK]

Filter/Dryer short hand for it, saves typing when talking about that part of the system lol.

But of course it is, I'm feeling about > this big now <; it's one of those blinding flash moments.

Or, as the other call it - one of the senior moments.

[coolhibby1875]

why would you want to mix it anyway dont understand

[sawtell]

You guys ever heard of Daltons Law of partial pressures? R410 and R22 don't mix, if you put them together in the same system all you will create is a potential time bomb.

[goodguy]

MG, I'm pretty sure as long as the MWP is rated at 500psi and it is HFC compatible it can be used for 410.
Unloadedinher, personally I've only worked on about 8 units that used 410a and only one of them used a 5/16 port, which was a Daikin. The other units were manufactured in north america and had standard 1/4 ports.
Does anyone know if there are any rules about a manufacturers using a certian sized access port?
I do think it is a good idea though.
Goodguy

[Dan]

you need to find out what refrigerant the system is running on, if the access ports are for normal 1/4" gauge lines then it is likely to be R22/R407c. R410a gauge connections are 5/16".

Hmmmm... I have a set of 410A gauges that fit standard 1/4" flares... and tanks of 410 that are 1/4" flare fittings. Am I missing something?

[Brian_UK]

No Dan, we have 5/16" access ports on some kit but the gauges come with a mixture of both sizes.

I think it harks back to the days of having a different thread on the high pressure port on R12 car a/c. It's supposed to stop fools from hurting themselves.

I spent half and hour trying to get the 5/16" hoses for a set of gauges from a wholesaler who just couldn't grasp the meaning of two different size hose threads. I gave up in the end and went somewhere else.

[monkey spanners]

Got some Yellow Jacket R410A gauges with all 1/4" connections and some Refco lines(RPW) with 1/4" and 5/16" on the red and blue, 1/4" both ends for yellow, so don't need any adaptors for the vac,bottle unlike the all 5/16" Gauges/lines. I think all the Asian Ac is 5/16" and much of the American is 1/4".

Jon

[aldematt57]

My understanding is that the dessicants in R-22 filter driers are different from the dessicants designed to filter 410-A refrigerant circuits.

[yoelyeve]

I dont beleve in mixing
reasen 1 is R-410 uses POE oil and most R22 systems dont have POE

[Karl Hofmann]

I have come across one or two cheap splits running on R410a with 1/4 inch service ports...So be careful out there

[joel]

never heard before charging a different refrigerant in an existing one.

its not an engineering practice, as we are all in ref.engrs...

[McGuiver]

In the USA all ports are the same size. There was talk originally of making them different, but that never happened. It is up to the Tech to determin what the refrigerent being used is. As for mixing refrigerents, 22 and 410A, that would cause the system not to work anywhere near the way it was designed and there would be a major loss of capacity if it had any capacity at all. 22 uses mineral oil and 410A uses POE. If the oils are mixed, as little as 5% mineral in a 410A system it will coagulate in the system like peanut butter and plug up the system beyond repair. I'm not sure what would happen with POE mixed in a 22 system, but I'm sure it can't be good. Sawtell is correct about Daltons Law of partial pressures, but that depends on the absolute pressure. The mixture of the 2 would change the systems designed temp glide above that of 22 and below that of 410A so the end result, depending on the percentage would reduce its capacity to the point of no capacity at all. As for the filter dryers, the type of dessicants are the same but there are aprox twice as many and of smaller size for 410A and the casing is designed for higher pressures than that of a 22 filter. The 410A filter can be used for both 22 and 410A but not the other way around. The pressures associated with 410A are between 1.6 to 1.8 time higher than 22 and if you know the percentage of the mix then you could actually calculate the temp glide. Hope this helps, good luck...