Air doors/curtains

[IceMan_4000]

Here are two more videos shot from inside the freezer

I think this one is from a Montreal facility

TS off - http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...74806473&hl=en

TS on - http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...45368566&hl=en


Big change in moisture entering the freezer

[chilldis]

the best air door design I have worked with was a cross-flow design(horizontal) on the cold side of the door. cold air having the higher density providing the better barrier between the two zones. the trick is to have the highest air velocity on the supply side and a large enough return grille to provide a constant wall of dense air to seal the doorway.

[jromine]

I don't want to change the topic, if there is a more appropriate forum, let me know, but what do you believe is the proper door system for a freezer/distribution center considering all factors such as air infiltration, energy, reliablility and ability to handle an impact?
Thanks,
Jim

[US Iceman]

No door to my knowledge has an impact rating, which I assume you mean from forklifts. From an infiltration and energy viewpoint doors only work when closed. If the traffic is high then you need to consider ways to reduce infiltration and the associated energy costs.

From my perspective I like the HCR Doors for open flow of traffic and a permanent insulated door for times when the traffic is non-existant.

[jromine]

I don't know if you would call it an impact rating, but several doors advertise the ablility to "reset" after an impact or have break away panels. And yes, forklifts are the culprit!
I have seen the rapid roll up doors such as the Rbac, Rytec & Dynaco and would be curious to see the results others have had with these in their operations. I also agree you need to have a insulated door to properly secure the freezer during off hours or if there is a power outage.

[US Iceman]

You really need to discuss this topic with some end-users who have first hand experience with the doors. The benefit of the HCR doors is that the doorway is open all of the time.

As a notice: I do not sell the doors, but I like the concepts they use. The people I have talked to who own these doors are very happy campers!

[nh3wizard]

I don't want to change the topic, if there is a more appropriate forum, let me know, but what do you believe is the proper door system for a freezer/distribution center considering all factors such as air infiltration, energy, reliablility and ability to handle an impact?
Thanks,
Jim

I guess this would depend on the facility layout, training of the operators, and the application used for the door, we can not blame the door manufacturer if we put a door in knowing it was going to get "Beat to hell" to begin with. I dont care how impact resistant the doors is, if it can be torn apart a forklift driver will figure a way to do it...

[jromine]

I dont care how impact resistant the doors is, if it can be torn apart a forklift driver will figure a way to do it...

That is the reality of distribution centers, we put them up and the drivers try to tear them down. We use floor loops and more recently motion detectors to open and close the door and take that excuse away, but from time to time the drivers still hit them.
The rapid roll up doors seem to be less succeptible to being torn up when the do get hit.
Anybody got any preferences or ideas how to approach freezer doors best?

[US Iceman]

Anybody got any preferences or ideas how to approach freezer doors best?

Talk to nh3wizard. He has some first hand experience on problems and issues with doors.

Ask him about the HCR doors also...

[Billy Ray]

Hi Us Iceman,K
not sure if this is what you may of been looking for,
its on the Munters UK web site, its a coldstore dehumidifier,desicant type i think.

Its called an Icedry unit. I dont know anything about these at all!!

Maybe worth a look.

Billy Ray

[US Iceman]

I think I have seen those before Billy Ray. And, if I remember the details they were a desiccant dehumidifier unit. While the are able to produce very low dew point temperatures that will absorb the moisture from the air in the cold store, they do so at a cost. These units have a regeneration cycle to dry out the wheels/desiccant so there are some energy costs involved in their operation.

[Billy Ray]

i suppose its a cost descision to install these or not! to prevent ice build up (or excessive ice build up) within a cold store, which we all know is a feature of cold stores. That is, unless running cost of a cold store can be reduced by installing one of these units.

The big question is, will these reduce a cold store running cost?

Another view maybe, is a Health & Safety initiative, i.e slippery floors etc.

Billy Ray

[nh3wizard]

That is the reality of distribution centers, we put them up and the drivers try to tear them down. We use floor loops and more recently motion detectors to open and close the door and take that excuse away, but from time to time the drivers still hit them.
The rapid roll up doors seem to be less succeptible to being torn up when the do get hit.
Anybody got any preferences or ideas how to approach freezer doors best?

Floor loops, motion sensors, doesn't really y make a difference, have you tried slowing the trucks down? It helped us out.

[low0tech]

hallo Iceman, I've seen fridges in supermarkets having air curtins so cold can't escape but there is a catch.The curtin should not be placed on the upper side of the door but on the lower in the floor in your case or theoritically you should put one on the upper blowing and one on the lower vacuuming(sorry for my english.)I'm sure you've seen freezers without doors where you get frozen fish f.ex by just picking them up.they are maintenance free but i dont know their operating cost

[Scramjetman]

My experience with Air curtains is that they are hopeless. I did a D & C ( Design and Cronstruct on a luxury cruise ship and found the best way of controlling infiltration was positive pressurisation. Everybody has a heart attack about operating cost as soon as it is mentioned, but with energy recovery on the fresh air-side, it works a treat on refrigeration and air conditioning. It's probably a bit left field - but it works.

[tarcau mihai]

My experience with Air curtains is that they are hopeless. I did a D & C ( Design and Cronstruct on a luxury cruise ship and found the best way of controlling infiltration was positive pressurisation. Everybody has a heart attack about operating cost as soon as it is mentioned, but with energy recovery on the fresh air-side, it works a treat on refrigeration and air conditioning. It's probably a bit left field - but it works.

yep you're right is good solution to turn off the exhaust for area where you have open doors!

[jromine]

Floor loops, motion sensors, doesn't really y make a difference, have you tried slowing the trucks down? It helped us out.

The problem with slowing them down is I have no lasting control over there actions. We can get them to slow down when operations sees the benefit, but it only lasts until the memory of the replacement cost of the door fades.
I am trying to engineer around the drivers...I know, an impossible task...but mine none the less.

[Mozambezi]

I do fix cold-rooms. So thoughts are...

First: Poor system design - usually fan blows cold air into door!!!

Second: On most systems door switch, preventing evap fan from work is missing

Third: Same switch engages Air blower, in fact it is separate unit

Forth: I'm fitting INDESTRUCTIBLE PVC too.

Resuming: It works in kitchens with Tamb = 35C and no complains about Ice on evaporator. Compressor, after design cure works as it should - 30% of time.