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Thread: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
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19-05-2007, 05:11 AM #1
CO2/Propane supermarket systems
Here is an interesting link using a different combination of refrigerants for supermarket systems.
http://www.airah.org.au/downloads/2004-02-02.pdf
If all else fails, ask for help.
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19-05-2007, 07:20 PM #2
Re: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
Nice and current link Iceman. Not a bad way to go to get ride of 404A or other greenhouse refrigerants - and it overcomes the lack of familarity in tooling and practise supermarket techs have with Ammonia.
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19-05-2007, 09:20 PM #3
Re: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
Very good link and something that is going to happen more often (Co2 anyway). I think there will a lot of discussion before it becomes the norm though.
CO2 emmissions seem to be the big thing at the moment and this will only slow down the progress. I havnt made my mind up on this one yet.
propane , dont think it has a chance. too bigger risk of explosions. Cant see this going any bigger than integral units and even then when compressors go or they have a gas leak the get replaced with 134/404
Regards
Raymond
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20-05-2007, 02:11 AM #4
Re: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
Very good link and something that is going to happen more often (Co2 anyway). I think there will a lot of discussion before it becomes the norm though.
CO2 emmissions seem to be the big thing at the moment and this will only slow down the progress. I havnt made my mind up on this one yet.
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20-05-2007, 04:19 AM #5
Re: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
I proposed a propane/CO2 cascade system several years ago and was beat out due to the plant insisting on cast steel compressor casings on the propane compressor. It was an 800 HP twin screw and lower HP twin screw on the bottom stage. Power beat the "*****" system by several percentage points, but the added cost of steel case on the propane killed me.
They would not consider ammonia on the high temp system as "it was too dangerous", but nothing like some of the other chemicals they made at this plant.
Ken
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20-05-2007, 05:09 AM #6
Re: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
I have also ran into the same problem with large propane & propylene systems. And had the same luck proposing ammonia systems in chemical plants.
Some of the chemicals found in these plants make ammonia look like water, but... there is no way I know of to convince people otherwise.
It seems to me the cast steel requirement is in case of a fire. Apparently, the steel casings are more forgiving when the water hits the hot casing when trying to extinguish a fire. Much more so than the normal cast iron housings. At least that's what I remember.
We use natural gas & LPG all over the world without many accidents. I don't see why propane should be a big deal. It behaves almost the same as R-22, except the oil solubility problem is worse with propane.If all else fails, ask for help.
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20-05-2007, 07:38 AM #7
Re: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
Because some idiot once upon a time blew him self up, and if it is dangerous to the stupidest person, by mythology, it got to be illegal for the rest of us!
That and same BS the Oil industry pulls with hydrogen it is as the ***** companies do about HC refrigerants & Ammonia
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20-05-2007, 05:02 PM #8
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20-05-2007, 10:13 PM #9
Re: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
Originally Posted by Andy_PIf all else fails, ask for help.
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22-09-2007, 12:02 PM #10
Re: CO2/Propane supermarket systems
...and she said "give it to me you big fridgie"
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